My Journey pt 6: Choosing Blindness… Really? pt 2


“I Can’t Imagine or Accept what Science says against my Faith”

Posted as a Comment on A Disciple’s Study regarding Tim Challies’ article. Let’s see if it shows up on the blog or if the blog author just deletes it, shall we?

“i think the last bit is telling…
“If we admit and endorse an ancient universe, we see a vastly purposeless universe that for the great majority of time had no human beings to bring purpose and order to it. We see that humanity’s role in the universe is late and incidental rather than timely and purposeful. We see God’s creation existing for a million ages without the purpose and presence afforded by the one being created in God’s image. And, for me, that is one powerful argument for a universe that is only as old as humanity.”
—-
he thinks the “unthinkability” of such a conclusion reached from evidence and scientific inquiry is an argument against the conclusion. in the end, Faith wins and he chooses to continue to conform his view of reality to the bible, against the evidence to the contrary. he finds it just too uncomfortable a thought to consider the bible is wrong about almost everything it says with regards to science and the real world evidence, so he refuses to see what he does not want to. he has chosen the blindness of ‘seeing’ by faith over the sight of knowing by evidence and scientific inquiry. What can truly be said for such a position?”
-KIA

Again remember, neither arguments from Ignorance nor from Incredulity are arguments to support either

  • A) that the scientific evidence that opposes your Faith Convictions are incorrect or
  • B) that your Faith Convictions and Beliefs are in fact True

Even if the current models of Cosmology, Naturalistic and Evolutionary understandings of how the universe (this current universe even) began and developed into what we see and are today could ALL be proven wrong and deficient… the Biblical God and the Stories it tells about Creation, Adam and Eve, Sin and the Fall, Jesus and the Redemption of Mankind by the One Time Human Sacrifice of God in the Flesh on a Roman Cross… wouldn’t be True ™ “just be Default”. You STILL would bear the ‘Burden of Proof’ that in fact your Beliefs are Historically True and Accurate and you would still need to defend them from the Evidences against them by what Science, Historical Records and Archaeological Finds stack up against them.

Just saying that you can’t bear to think of the consequences to your Faith is Evidence itself is Stupifying and dishonest, both intellectually within yourself, but also dishonest with how you communicate to others. Pretty typical for Christian Apologetics though.

What would you say to Tim or the Blog Author? Did you have anything to contribute or tell me? Like, Share, Subscribe and Comment below. Thx again.

-KIA

The Believer’s Dispair of the Truth

Fear of the loss of his Innocence drives him to continue believing… regardless of Evidence and Historical Truth…

“… God’s Word trumps…”

In answer to the question “Should the Biblical creation story be viewed as literal or figurative?”

AUGUST 19, 2016 AT 9:35 AM
Wally Fry
Hey Lynn

Interesting question, and I am going to chime in! I am one of those “fundamentalists” First, I’m not here to debate any one one your blog, nor will I.

I happen to believe creation happened just as described in Genesis. Allow me to add some thoughts. Let me say first that I understand the reality of what seems to be compelling evidence from history and science that this account can only be figurative. Again, that’s an entire other subject. Being the fundamentalist that I am, I would simply state I believe God’s Word trumps.

The Believer denies evidence because to do otherwise… invites despair and disappointment… and deconversion…

Why does a literal creation matter? Some thoughts.

We we rule out a literal creation as just not possible we imply that God really couldn’t do all that. Well, if He could not speak the worlds into existence, then he is not much of a God.

Genesis 2:7 tells us God formed us with His own hands and personally breathed life into us. We were created in His image. Frankly, the entire evolutionary model, while seemingly compelling, destroys the very thought that humankind is in God’s image. The implications of evolving into God’s image are outstanding. That would imply that somehow we are, over time, able to become more God like and in His image. That would be no more than us working our way to salvation, by works. Toss grace out of the window. We didn’t evolve into God’s image, He created us that way.

And the full extent of the believer’s dispair… crescendos yet higher…

If there was no literal creation, and no literal garden, and no literal Adam and Eve…then there is….nothing. No Adam and Eve…….no fall into sin…..then no sin. No sin problem, then no need for Jesus, because if we aren’t sinners no need to any payment to be made. Frankly, Lynn, without a literal creation, then the entire rest of the narrative unravels as well.

Then we roll right back into we don’t need God, we don’t need Jesus. We just need to work hard and eventually we will evolve and change into something better.

I was wrong, Brother Wally. You DO understand…

It may seem at times that the literal account of Genesis is very hard to believe, but I maintain that it is a vital part of the entire Word of God upon which our faith is built.

You are just Afraid. Like I was. Like I am. But fear is no foundation for life, peace, joy and fulfillment. 

“… by the mouth of two witnesses…”, from an earlier post on The Resurrection

“Without a bodily resurrection, our entire faith simply melts away. Without the Resurrection, Jesus was not God; he was just a martyred prophet. Without the Resurrection, every single prophecy about it is false; that renders the Bible false. Without the Resurrection, even Jesus’ own prophecies about His death and Resurrection were false, making Him not even a real prophet, but a false one. ” – Wally.

I’m sad for you, Brother Wally… and hopeful .

Because if you understand what’s at stake, the devastation to your Faith in accepting evidence and historical truth… then even though for now… you maintain your Faith, later… Maybe not much later… you may understand where I am in my journey. Maybe even… you’ll join me, where the Evidence leads away from the Biblical God and to…

Recovery.

Truth ™ is sometimes… Askew to some people. But eventually, it all seems to straighten out and align with… 

Reality.

My hope for you, Brother Wally, and all who are now as I once was. Bound by fear of Truth.

-kia

It’s Monday again… I have a Team 

Superman in a Shirt and Tie

More calls coming in

Cringing, but not shrinking back.

Real People Need Me

kia

Some days it feels like the Steel has become ‘pot metal’ and as hard as I try to remold the day to make it conform to my expectations and design, the more it wants to stay just ‘pig iron’.

I realize of course that it’s not all on my shoulders. There are many others who bear the same weight with me to varying degrees of responsibility, knowledge, experience and skill. I am not alone, I have a Team. But some days, as I go about saving the world for that particular day, it feels I’m trying to hold up a world that doesn’t want to be held. 

Its Monday again. Let’s see what today wants to be, shall we.

-kia

Criticizing ideas is not mocking or bullying people

A comment I left for a blogging buddy

Wally, you need to see the difference between criticizing ideas and criticizing people. I know there is a huge identity in being a believer. At one time, for much longer and more involved than you have yet been, my life was ‘hid with Christ’. My whole identity was ‘Christ’. I also took it very personally when people cricized my faith, beliefs and ideas in Christianity. But they weren’t mocking or ridiculing me as a person. They were questioning and challenging, even mocking ideas. 

When some one criticizes your ideas and beliefs, then you respond by attacking them personally as if they had attacked you personally, that is bullying and reveals how insecure and immature you are in who you are and what you believe.

I did not bully you or tom or cs. I criticized his posts and ideas as of late. You and Tom chose to make it personal by attacking me, as if I had attacked you personally rather than your beliefs and ideas. You are the bullies here brother, not me.

I just said, I hope you had a good Sunday. Think about it.

-kia

I am Crucified with Christ, therefore I no longer live

When you’re whole identity is wrapped up in a religious idea, you take it personally when you really shouldn’t. Christianity makes you do and say things to people you hardly know and hardly know you that you wouldn’t ever otherwise say or do. 

After you “come unto me with the Faith of little children and babes”, it regresses your emotional and intellectual maturity to that of “children and little babes”. You can no longer separate when others are just asking you to think about your beliefs, ideas and faith, or criticizing, mocking or ‘bullying’ you as a person. 

So you bully back when you think others are bullying you. But we aren’t. No matter how soft or considerate or polite we are being… even when we are just saying “have a great day”, there will be some like Wally here that will call it bullying because of their perceived animosity in your words. And they will feel fully justified in bullying back, even if their scripture tells them 

  • “not to repay evil for evil”, 
  • “turn the other cheek”, 
  • “vengeance is mine thus saith the lord”, and 
  • “not to resist evil” and 
  • “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.

Wally doesn’t have the intellectual or emotional maturity to deal with questions and challenges to his Faith, ideas, beliefs. It was stolen from him as if he never had it to begin with, and I think he probably did as he ‘came to faith’ much later in life than I did. This is what Faith and reliance on only absolute confirmation of what you believe and think to be true does to you. 

Hearing voices in your head

It makes you hear “I hope you had a great sunday” and “Have a nice day” as if they are really cursing you and bullying you personally. You say, “Have a Nice Day…” they hear “F*ck You, buddy”. If your ideas and beliefs can’t take questions and challenges and out right denials without you thinking people are mocking you personally, then maybe, just maybe they aren’t so solid, relaible and true after all. Better look into that. And oh, by the way…

Have a Great Day and Week, Brother Wally.

-kia

Bertrand Russell on Truth, Love and Tolerance as a way of living 

Words to remember and live by

Bertrand Russell

“I should like to say two things, one intellectual and one moral. The intellectual thing I should want to say is this: When you are studying any matter, or considering any philosophy, ask yourself only what are the facts and what is the truth that the facts bear out. Never let yourself be diverted either by what you wish to believe, or by what you think would have beneficent social effects if it were believed. But look only, and solely, at what are the facts. That is the intellectual thing that I should wish to say…”

(Pause to include a word from the Answers in Genesis Statement of Faith…)

  • By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information.

(Please continue….)

“… The moral thing I should wish to say…I should say love is wise, hatred is foolish. In this world which is getting more closely and closely interconnected we have to learn to tolerate each other, we have to learn to put up with the fact that some people say things that we don’t like. We can only live together in that way and if we are to live together and not die together we must learn a kind of charity and a kind of tolerance which is absolutely vital to the continuation of human life on this planet.”

― Bertrand Russell

“Love is Wise, Hatred is Foolish” -Bertrand Russell

-kia

How to Practice Faith & Spirituality – Rob Bell

From Pariah to Prophet

From a man and a minister that when I was a Christian I was told to brand a heretic and an apostate. I love this man now. Such wisdom and grace. 

Now, as a deconverted and former christian, I think… Great podcast interview on Faith and Spirituality without the imposition of Man-made ‘religion’. What wisdom, grace compassion, empathy and intelligence this man displays

Some favorite quotes from the interview:

” your life is a gift and you intuitively know how you respond matters”

“Humans tend to create institutions that get in the way of being human”

“What does it mean to make a difference in the world, what does it mean step outside your comfort zone”

Interviewer: “So what is it that you believe in? The whole big picture, what is the Faith then?”

Rob: “Overall? The big picture? I believe there is Something at work in the Universe, moving us Forward”

“Solidarity is Divine”

When asked about the Bible: 

“I read it Literate-ly. I read it as the literature that it is… I always begin that it’s real people in real places at real times… ‘whatever we know about the Divine begins with the Human'”

“The truth is some ideas about God have to die, they can’t keep up. You have to let go of that conception. If your God isn’t as big as your science, you’re in trouble… ‘we’ve learned some things about biology and cosmology and if your God can’t speak to this, it’s not going to work. “

Interviewer: “What is your Mission now?

Rob: “I want to wake people up to the miracle that is your Life”

Three truths he would leave behind:

“Love wins, everything is Spiritual. There’s Depth to everything… and there way more going on here”

What did you think of Rob Bell when you first heard of him and his book Love Wins? Have you read the book? We’re you a Christian? Have you also entered Recovery? What do you think of him now? 

What were your impression s of this interview and his positions now on Faith and Spirituality, God, the Universe and Wonder? Why not start a conversation in the comments below. Let’s talk.

-kia

Sunday Morning Grace: Embrace True Forgiveness

My question for today is “Cannot the One who made up the rules and is Only offended by their abrogation just simply… Forgive?” My answer is… Yes. Yes he can. But why doesn’t He? -kia

“True Forgiveness is me giving up my right to any Recompense for the wrong you have done to me. It means neither you or anyone else has to pay the Penalty or the Price. Otherwise it’s not Forgiveness, but just Punishment or Scapegoating someone else to keep you from needing Give what only you can give… True Forgiveness… Forgives.” -kia

In Christianity and according to the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, 

  • God creates the World, Us and All there is
  • He makes the rules
  • Only He is ‘ultimately’ offended
  • Ultimately, He is the Creditor
  • Only He is Unchanging and Unchangeable
  • Nothing we do or say can ever minimize or diminish What and Who He is

He could just Forgive, 

  • but He chooses to Recompense Eternal Punishment and Torture for finite offenses during our finite lifetimes. 

He could just Forgive, 

  • but His Glory ‘demands’ Payment, whether by You and I in a place of Everlasting Fire or His Own Son on an equally Finite torture and death on a cross. 

Only He is ultimately offended. 

  • Only He is able to Forgive and Release the Sinner from the Price and Penalty by True Forgiveness… Relinquishing His Rights to Recompense… on You or anyone else FOR you.

He could just Forgive… wouldn’t You? 

  • Have you asked yourself, christian… If He can and He could… Why won’t He and Why doesn’t He?

Embrace True Forgiveness Today. 

My Hope for you who are still as I once was, a Christian Slave to a False System of Divine Human Sacrifice and Eternal bondage or Eternal punishment… is that you would simply walk away from the False Forgiveness and system of Penalty, Price, Punishment and Pain. That you would learn that There is no Scapegoat. There is only True Forgiveness… or Recompense.

“I set before you Life… therefore, Choose Life”-kia paraphrase

Choose True Forgiveness Today and Give it to others Freely.

-kia