Interview with a Kia pt2: Turn about is Fair Play

See https://recoveringknowitall.wordpress.com/2016/07/23/turn-about-is-fair-play-brother-dax-responds/

***For the UPDATE post ***

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Hi there all you wonderful people. My post earlier

https://recoveringknowitall.wordpress.com/2016/06/09/an-interview-with-a-kia-for-infectedsaint-why-i-quit-the-faith/

on this brother’s

Www.infectedsaint.wordpress.com

questions for me a a Christian deconvert went so well and was such a success for civil and polite exchange that we decided it would be nice to do another. This time I will ask the questions and Dax of The Infected Saint will do the answering.

I’ve taken it easy on him, as you can see, and only included three to his six for me, but I have to admit they are a bit heavy. Bang for the buck if you will. Here they are, so why not tell me how he did in the comments below.

While you’re at it, if you are a believer in Jesus or a Christian of any stripe, why not take a crack at the questions yourself? I’m open to discussion and exchange, not always to arguments or debates, and one sided preaching monologues don’t do much for two way communication, especially as I have probably heard, read or even repeated whatever you’re thinking of anyway in my 34yrs as a Christian or the 25yrs I spent in avocational ministry.

I’m more interested in discussion and exchange that proselytizing these days if you get my drift. So open up those minds and apply fingers to keyboards and tell me what you got. Thx. -Kia
—————-

Hey there brother Dax

I got my questions together. I’m taking it easy on you 😉 only 3.

1) how did you become a Christian? (Please briefly tell your conversion story.)

2)  would you say that it was evidence, historical/archaeological, that first convinced you that Christianity was true or did you just believe?

3) what, if anything, would convince you that the bible and or Christianity was false? (I’m not asking for a litany of reasons that you believe them to be true, but what would convince you that they are not true)

Well brother, thx again for the opportunity to exchange ideas.

(Looking forward to the answers from everyone.)

-Kia

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22 thoughts on “Interview with a Kia pt2: Turn about is Fair Play

  1. Mike you asked Dax, ‘what, if anything, would convince you that the bible and or Christianity was false?’

    I think this is a difficult question fro anyone to answer, much like its opposite that is often asked of non believers ‘what would it take for you to believe?’

    My conclusion is that belief or unbelief is not something that one chooses. In my case I did not choose unbelief, in fact it caught me quite by surprise.

    My unbelief happened like switch turning on. It in an instant. I can still recall the moment, I said to myself, ‘perhaps this is not all true’ As soon as I was prepared to consider that possibility I knew I no longer believed.

    I have reflected upon the why and how and think I now understand the matter. I had spent the four years leading up to me deconversion moment deeply involved in Christian study. This had forced me to confront issues that many folk in the pwes never consider. I believe I had been building up in my mind a large amount of evidence against Christianity, but whilst I refused to question my presuppositions it remained in the back of my mind and was not consciously acted upon. But once I was prepared to consider that Christianity might be false all this evidence that my mind had been subconsciously processing came to the fore.

    I then have spent the last year and a half reading back over the Bible and apologetic works to confirm that the non belief does accord with all the evidence. I have partly done so as I am well aware of the adverse consequences if I am wrong.

    My biggest fear when I started this post deconversion review of the evidence was ‘what if the evidence is inconclusive?’ I wondered how I should react if parts of the Bible seemed clearly human and in error and other parts seemed to be divine. This potential dilemma concerned me, but thankfully the evidence has been very strongly towards to human/non divine conclusion.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I was hoping for a better answer from dax than Ken ham gave to bill nye. His answer was something like this but not word for word “I’m a Christian… nothing would convince me that christianity or the Bible wasn’t true”

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      • Such an answer is a real conversation stopper.

        This is why I find that discussing errors in the Bible gets me nowhere with committed Christians because they are not prepared to accept the possibility of an error so will accept the most implausible explanation of Bible errors and contradictions.

        It is only when someone values truth more than the comfort of belief that they will be prepared to honestly test the validity of their beliefs.

        Saying one would never accept any evidence contrary to one’s faith might sound noble, but what do Christians think of those of other faiths who profess such an attitude?

        Liked by 1 person

        • unfortunately, both of us previously would have had the same answer. something clicked along the way for us, somehow the veneer cracked, the plaster opened a sliver and we were open to ‘seeing’ and knowing what we hadn’t been allowed to before.
          my prayer and hope is that in continued interaction with dax and other christians such as we were, that something would trigger a desire to question what was previously unquestionable.
          “I have a great heaviness for my brethern” paul said. i echo that just in a different context

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          • I applaud your efforts at interaction. In my case I feel pretty jaded by it all and in the main don’t bother much at trying to persuade Christians that they are mistaken.

            I am currently reading Fritz Ridenour’s book, ‘How to be a Christian in an UnChristian World’. I don’t know why I keep reading these sort of books as one sees the same arguments used again and again. The book is full of strawmen charitisations of atheists, and is especially disdainful of reason when used to evaluate ‘truth’.

            Something that bothered me when I called myself a Christian was why ‘God’ needed so much help. What I mean is that there are so many Christian books? Now if the creator of the Universe personally wrote a book for humanity then why is it that any other Christian books are required, let alone the plethora of books explaining what God really meant to say.

            Liked by 2 people

            • Something that bothered me when I called myself a Christian was why ‘God’ needed so much help. What I mean is that there are so many Christian books?

              Peter, have you ever asked a Christian why this is?

              Liked by 1 person

              • The Christian answer was that he didn’t “need” help, but he wanted to “include” us in the process of bringing the message. As a type of Christ to the world, gods live wrapped in human flesh and lived out in front of others to convince them to do likewise and “share” in relationship with the God who doesn’t overpower our free will

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    • I can’t answer any of Mike’s questions as I’ve never believed. However I thought your point was interesting, ‘what would it take for you to believe?’

      Easy. Show me how a virgin 2000 years ago, pre IVF, gave birth.
      Show me how someone cones back from the dead after three days of being tortured and not only that, has the strength to roll away a large stone.
      Show me talking snakes and donkeys.
      Show me how to feed thousands of people with a few fish.
      Show me how to get all the animals of the world into an ark, miraculously built with skills before thst time.
      Show me how a man can live in the belly of a whale.
      Etc.

      After that explain where hell is and it contains millions of people.

      Then explain the consistent misogyny and slavery.

      Finally explain why the Christian god is the one to choose above all other gods in the world.

      Sadly I know the answer. God is and His Word is too.

      Liked by 2 people

      • This question, ahead of all the others, is the one to be answered: Show me how to get all the animals of the world into an ark, miraculously built with skills before thst time.

        Especially when you read this article, which includes such relevant points as gathering the animals, accommodating the animals, caring for the animals, and releasing the animals (aquatic included) at the top of a mountain.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Yeah, I read that one from Mak’s. To me they are all as valid as they are all equally nonsensical. But I appreciate I come from a different perspective. I don’t need facts and theories to prove it is fiction. It just doesn’t hang together for me. Never has done. We need to face mortality, and I don’t relish it, but I don’t wan’t delusion. Death with dignity is what we should work towards. Not fictional tosh.

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  2. Mike I have concluded that it is actually incredibly hard for believers and nonbelievers to have a long term cordial exchange of ideas. Cordial discussions might take place at the start, but once it becomes clear that neither party is prepared to give ground then either the discussions cease, become less cordial or just get nowhere.

    It is very hard to reach a compromise type outcome in these discussions given the nature of the issues being addressed.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. I should clarify that my discussions with James started off as cordial. But that did not last long once he concluded that I was not prepared to accept that the Bible was divine and I concluded he was not prepared to seriously consider my arguments for why the Bible was not divine.

    Liked by 1 person

    • James is just flat out dishonest because he lacks the knowledge and experience, that’s why he bullies and silences people on his blog by banning and deleting comments

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  4. Reblogged this on Infected Saint and commented:
    KIA and I have been in a dialogue over the last several months about the faith. I am firmly planted in the faith and he has left the faith. I interviewed him and to keep it fair, he has now interviewed me. While he only gave me three questions i do see them as set up questions for he and his entourage to “catch” me in what they will deem fallacious arguments.. Nevertheless, I answered them honestly. I am not using these answers to try and prove my faith. There are times when I will defend and argue the faith. Maybe through discussion from here I will do that. BUT, my answers to his questions were not that. They were my honest reflections.

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    • I’m still haunted by this comment dax. Why would you automatically assume my questions were meant to “catch you” rather than just honest questions? Were you imputing false motives where ingave no indications of such? Or were just playing to your base to make yourself look good by trying to make me look bad from the outset? Either way, it was a dishonest and manipulative move you still have not apologized for.

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