Conversing Honestly with Cowardly Lions pt 2: “Yes, Britons are still Britons”

The Amazing Honesty of an overgrown Pu… uh, Cats

Christian Blogger Extraordinaire recently posted a comical swipe at the theory of evolution using, of all things, Dairy Cows as explanation why god is responsible for their Natural existence. 

Aside from the comment I left telling him from a Natural POV that modern Dairy Cows are far far from ‘full natty, brah’ because of the genetic and artificial manipulation, torture, repeated forced insemination and exploitation of what once was a Natural and beautiful creature very different from what we have now…. (read some of the truth here)

… another blogging buddy, John Zande, chose to deal with the anti evolutionary message/meme of the article from a comical meme fitting with the tone and tenor of the post. 

(Hint: anti evolutionist often ask “if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes?”) 

Only to be blocked, edited and kept from comments, as he testified here on one of my recent posts. So i thought I’d make a post pointing out the meme that answered the usual idiocy spouted above in the Hint, and CS’s dishonest exploits in the name of Christian Blogging. Indeed, it’s ‘Conversing Honestly with Cowardly Lions’ part 2.  

Enjoy the smack down. -kia

john zande
SEPTEMBER 3, 2016 AT 7:22 AM
And this is the meme he’s refusing to allow

 
KIA
SEPTEMBER 3, 2016 AT 7:24 AM
Hilarious… but that’s because Americans were never True Britons ™ in the first place😉

john zande
SEPTEMBER 3, 2016 AT 7:25 AM
Ahhhh🙂

KIA
SEPTEMBER 3, 2016 AT 7:26 AM
Too bad cs never thought of countering with that, rather than blocking the convo.

KIA
SEPTEMBER 3, 2016 AT 7:35 AM
I tried to post the Americans not true Britons comment on the thread but he deleted it… typical

—–

Pro Tip from the cheap seats:

If your Faith can’t handle Open and Free discussion where no deleting, selective editing and blocking takes place, then maybe it’s time to reevaluate your position? Especially when you don’t seem to care too much for the practice yourself of selectively deleting or editing comments when it’s on someone else’s blog.

Just sayin’

-kia

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181 thoughts on “Conversing Honestly with Cowardly Lions pt 2: “Yes, Britons are still Britons”

      • 🙂 very good Kia!
        We’re all spirit beings with a mind, and we occupy a body.
        Yes, we’re human beings in the physical realm – the only one that I’m aware you give credence to… you’re free to correct me if I’m wrong.

        Liked by 1 person

          • One way, though for you I would not recommend it would be to die.
            Because it would be too late when you’ve discovered your body like a turtle’s shell devoid of it’s spirit, but your spirit is totally conscious of all that is happening around you.
            It just cannot do anything for you because in this realm you need a physical body – body of clay- to be of any use.

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              • That is not an option “just believe and you’ll know it to be true” that is an invitation to ignore whether it’s True or not, and become biased myself (again as I once was for 34yrs)
                Nothing new here. Try FIRST demonstrating that the Spirit actually exists without the body. Stop being mindless and answer the question

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              • It would be nice if you did not make up stuff I did not say.

                You don’t have to do it yourself. You’ve asked me to demonstrate.
                As I’m here, and you’re there, I’ve given you an option that is demonstrable.

                Do you know, just based on the writings of believers and non-believers, I can tell those who are born of the spirit. I also know those who are born of the spirit but have no idea what it really means… in other words, they’re struggling to be what they already are.

                It’s easy to tell those who claim to have once been Christians, if they were actually born of the spirit… or like above if they were, but just lacked knowledge and understanding of their identity etc.

                Knowing when your question has been answered is a sign of understanding and intelligence.

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              • Your ‘born again’ detector is broken. I have both knowledge and experience. I was once what you now claim to be. It’s only your defence mechanism kicking in trying to deny me my own history and personal experience. You are afraid, I get that. But stop telling other people what they are or are not, what they know or don’t know, what they have or have not experienced. It’s not kind and not polite. So far below what you claim for Spirit Controlled and Led behaviour, manners and temperament.

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              • Well, isn’t this interesting.
                Isn’t it always the atheist and his cohorts who are trying to deny believers their knowledge and experience.

                As far as I can tell, I don’t recall denying you your personal history and experience.
                Matter of fact, I said early you have gotten out of dead religion.
                Why would I be afraid if you get it?

                The reality is anyone with a personal experience of Jesus and the power that dwells in His name alone, would know for a fact that He is real and exists! To this end there is no contestation!- for the one who has seen the demonstration of His power in their lives and the lives of others.

                I also don’t recall telling you or anyone else what they know or don’t know.
                I said I can tell what they know from what they write. That seems logical.
                I didn’t claim to know all they know, but based on what they say, I can make my own judgments.

                Ex. based on what Zande wrote in his meme, I’ve concluded it’s dumb! You may not make the same conclusion. But I use the information/knowledge available to me to make my conclusions.
                Everyone else does the same. Welcome to life!

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              • Ex. based on what Zande wrote in his meme, I’ve concluded it’s dumb!

                And based on this sentence, I’ve concluded you are willfully ignorant… Or have you never heard the Creationist meme: “If man evolved from monkey’s, why are there still monkeys?”

                Liked by 1 person

              • Zande, I have heard of the meme and agree with it.
                What you’ve overlooked is the fact that monkeys are one species, and human beings are another.
                Unlike the Briton and the American who are both human beings=same species (you know- capable of reproducing offspring )

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              • That’s not what I said at all!
                I said you’ll know if you have a spirit when your spirit is separated from your body and you realize you still have consciousness of what’s going on around you but can do nothing about it.

                Kind of like a patient with too much botulinum toxin… total paralysis to do anything but awareness.
                That’s all I said.
                Knowledge is power… don’t be destroyed for lack of knowledge.

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              • Kia, God in speaking of His OWN people says “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge”….
                What do you suppose He means by that!

                Clearly they’re already His people so He’s not speaking of ‘eternal destruction’ as you seem to be so fixated on.

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          • Another way to demonstrate the existence of the spirit is to become born-again.
            Those who are born-again of the Spirit of God/Holy Spirit are now a brand new species- one that never existed before.

            [To Zande’s dumb meme…. this is the only way in which one can be a brand new species while looking the same on the outside i.e. physically.]

            Anyway, once a person is born again of the Spirit of God, that person is no longer a sinner. They are dead to sin. This is why it’s silly that believers keep speaking so much of sin. A believer is no longer a sinner.
            Do they commit sin – yes.
            But not in their spirit. Their spirit is the same as Jesus and cannot sin!

            It’s the mind that has to be renewed to who one is in the spirit (born-again; new nature; new species) like re-programming a computer… and once the mind begins to be renewed, the outer-man… the things we do begin to change.

            So this is how you know if one is truly born of the Spirit of God Kia, and that their mind is renewed to who they now are.
            It begins to manifest itself outwardly.

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            • Spirit…never proven to exist.
              God…never proven to exist

              You keep using them like they exist though which is odd. It’s like you’re explaining how something that is completely fictitious works and expecting everybody to be like “okay” that makes sense. I mean it’s incredible the amount of thought you’ve put into this process that relies on the completely unverifiable premises that spirit and God exists. This spirit now has a consciousness, and gets to be free of sin, as long as this person who we are not even sure even existed, and even if he did exist cannot even be proved that he was divine, is some how in your spirit? Jesus! No pun intended. Oh and we don’t even know if there is even such a thing is sin, since we don’t even have evidence of the divine.

              I mean just because a lot of people share the delusion does not make it less so. I am sure it’s comforting and all…but it’s still without actual evidence. You have definitely been programmed..but not by God, but by man.

              I of course know your response to this Mr. Ancients is going to be one of an equal level of derision simply because it has to be…whether you type out that derision or have it in your head matters not. The point is that your entire framework of logic exists entirely and solely by the power of faith. A very human quality that we all share, in fact we can have faith about almost anything. Which means that your much like a balancing circus act where many objects and people all rest upon a singular support below. The physics all works out. Except that solitary support is only held their by the powers of imagination. If you doubt the existence of that support even for a second it all falls down and a lot of people get hurt. So I get it…so go slowly…dismantle piece by piece and it will be gentle…stop focusing on the support because it’s not really there…but you can wait until later to find that out.

              Liked by 3 people

              • By your own admission, there’s a lot that you do not know.
                Strange then, that you, who do not know, would presume to tell me what I do know and what is reality.

                I am limited by my own limitations in what I do know… not by yours Swarn Gill.

                A simple, verifiable fact as the existence of Jesus you do not know… need I say more to you.

                Yet somehow you think your poor attempt at insults will find a target. Ha!

                Liked by 1 person

              • There is a lot I do not know, but I do know the best way to know things, and that way shows that you do not know what you think you know. I do know that. Because I have researched it, and I am good judge of research because when it follows the best way we have to come to know things then I know it is good research.

                I also understand logic very well. I understand logic has to meaning unless the premises in which we rest our logic on are verifiable through that best way we have for knowing things. And I know you don’t have that.

                I also know that you may have a lot of personal truths. I know how the brain works and how it can fool us, and how we can see things, have hallucination and that our personal biases and experiences don’t necessarily represent truth. They might, but if they do they are also independently verifiable through the best way we have to know things. I know that your personal experiences of the spirit do not. However, I do know that visions of the divine, auditory hallucinations, deep feelings of spiritual elation are an artifact of our brain. I know this because this was discovered through the best way to know things.

                I also know that faith is most beneficial as an emotion, but not as a way of knowing. Not as a proof of existence. Because under such conditions all deities and their nature become possible. Unicorns, hobbits, and any other thing I want to invent in my mind could be real should I simply choose to have faith. This is not how reality works. If you think this is how reality works. Then you are delusional. I know this because this is the behavior of delusional people. And I know this because this was discovered through the best way we have for knowing things, and I know this way very well.

                And I know…you do not.

                Liked by 3 people

              • How interesting… and foolish.

                If there’s a lot you do not know, you cannot claim knowledge of all that I know.
                Simply put – if you do not know; how can you know that I do not know.. duh?

                If your research, analytical, and comprehension abilities were so reliable, how is it that you do not even know that Jesus of Nazareth existed!

                “I also know that faith is most beneficial as an emotion”
                This is nonsense!
                Faith is the result of trust based on established relationship. You have faith in spite of feelings/emotions to the contrary because you’ve established a person’s reliability, adherence to their words, etc.

                The bird grounded on one wing thinks the soaring eagle is delusional based on it’s viewpoint and experiences.

                Newsflash – I have access to the same information you do…and more

                Liked by 1 person

              • “If your research, analytical, and comprehension abilities were so reliable, how is it that you do not even know that Jesus of Nazareth existed!”

                Hmmm…I was wondering how it is that you do not. You must reading different things. But let’s say you’re right…how do you know he was divine? Was there some written affidavits from people who saw him walk on water? You know none of the Gospels were written by anybody who actually knew Jesus (if he did exist)?

                Well I know a lot about religion, and if you have some empirical evidence to demonstrate the existence of God, I think we’d all be interested. Because if God existed he should be knowable without any a priori knowledge of its existence. LIke I don’t have to know if dogs exist for someone to explain to me what a dog is, how it behaves and give me evidence that it existence and behavior. I would love to have such evidence. Only then could you prove that I don’t know what you know.

                Your definition of faith doesn’t seem to conform to the dictionary, so I at least know you are confused there. “established relationship” has nothing to do with it. You can’t have a relationship with something that hasn’t been proven to exist. Which brings me back to my prior point in this comment, and my initial comment to you. Prove that God exists. Then you might have some basis for an established relationship to base your faith. Because right now your faith is a feeling because you believe you have a relationship with something you have yet (or anybody has yet) to prove exists.

                Liked by 1 person

              • Hey gill-

                Things ARE knowable without prior knowledge. What separates man from beast distinctly?

                The conscience, that innate part of you that knows apart from learning that stealing is wrong. You know lying is wrong; a dog could care less if he lies………..he cannot lie.

                And this same conscience proves to you God is. You need no help from your blogging friends to help you in your quest to dismiss him. Ten thousand comments later; 60 years later, God still will be God, and men’s gripes will be just as petty.

                Need proof? Uh, it’s called life.

                Liked by 2 people

              • That’s interesting. I don’t suppose it ever occurred to you that this conscience couldn’t develop through evolution right?

                More importantly there are people who don’t know that stealing is wrong, and think that murder is okay. These people are those who were raised under traumatic conditions perhaps, or are sociopathic and psychotic, but they really don’t know. Their conscience tells them that stealing is okay. They justify their actions based on selfish needs. Some of them are televangelists. It’s fun.

                But isn’t it also possible that if evolution favors survivors, and different species have different methods of survival that our behavior might be regulated by actions that are in the best interest to our survival. Like other primates we are a social species and we tend to survive by cooperating. So what would evolutionarily be the best way to cooperate? Probably being nice to each other and have a pleasure reward center in the brain that has us feeling nice when people do nice things for us and when we do nice things for then…then we have bonding drive in our brain that makes us friends and we cooperate. It’s all pretty natural. So being moral is actually in the best interest of our survival. When there is all sorts of murder and stealing and nasty stuff…people tend not to get along…they tend to try and survive on their own…they tend not to be very successful…and even if they are their children have no one to breed with. It’s a bit lonely.

                So for me the development of the conscience is just as animal as any thing else. The fact that even young children are natural empathetic, even before they know empathy is a good idea…doesn’t mean they know it…it just means it’s instinctual…of course they might be empathetic to a really fucked up adult and then their morality alters. And all of sudden their empathy with their racist dad, makes them racist too. It’s fun, and they think they are moral.

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              • Sure they can…they make conscious decisions to deceive people when it’s in their own best interest. Dogs do it frequently actually as they have a similar reason as we do as social animals with a hierarchy.

                Liked by 3 people

              • Sorry Gill-

                Ask a dog if he stole the bone, and he just may say ‘what is stealing?’

                Sorry, animals cannot lie. And 5 hyenas at a zebra fest ‘stealing’ food from each other is not ‘stealing.’ They are doing nothing wrong.They are acting toward their nature.

                Whereas if you were to go into a cafe, and steal a bag of muffins……….while you may act like a hyena, you will feel guilty, while the hyena goes for round two.

                Animals are not human, and animals cannot sin.

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              • Animals do actively and consciously deceive. Is there a difference in your mind between deception and lying?

                Humans are far more elaborate and creative with their lies. I’ll grant that… I mean we did come up with religion. But animals deceive all the time and so do we…. Just more creatively. The difference between the animal world and us is bout so great as you think… Which isn’t surprising since we are animals.

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              • Well you have not made a compelling argument to discard what studies of animal behavior show. So your assertions are all belief based… Which I assume is largely how you determine truth. That isn’t a purely human quality either, but they are the best at it.

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              • Oh you mean can dogs talk? No they do not. I can’t argue with that. Deception is lying though, just not with verbal skills and dogs and many other animals do it. I mean do you really want me to Google all of the answers for you? I mean I feel this is very easy research to do on your own.

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              • Wow… You can even read the dictionary and see the definition of “lie” and know you are wrong. Lying didn’t necessarily imply verbally speaking a lie. I have to say of all the fundies on KIAs page you are the least capable at defending your assertions and the bar really wasn’t that high

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              • Hey rover:

                bark once if you stole the cookies; bark twice if you are lying…….

                It’s easy really. Animals cannot lie. This wonderful trait is reserved for they who are called human.

                Perhaps you need the old fashioned time tested Websters unabridged dictionary Gill.

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              • My dogs go in and out for their ‘business’. When they’ve done a ‘something’ they know they get a ‘something’ in return.
                There isn’t a day goes by that one or both of my sweet little white balls of fur tries to trick (or for CS’s benefit of translation… LIE) into thinking they went out and actually DID a something, when in reality, we could see them and know full well they didn’t. Wife ™ says “Give them a chicken treat anyway… ” Damned old softy I am, I have Grace

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              • Human lies are no different. You just imbue them with a slight to the god’s ego and say with David that they “have sinned not just against man, but god”
                However, you have no proof that the god of the Bible even exists in reality to sin against, let alone that he is personally offended by something we do without his involvement at all.

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              • Ah but mike, to lie, one must know what the truth is.

                Get off your animal bit already, truth and lies, lies and truth. Animals fall short. Case closed.

                A dog could hardly admit to the lie that Abraham never lived……… this lie is owned by the decadent.

                Once more, see how easy.

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              • The Bible can be demonstrated to be as much of a man made creation of myths and fictionalized history as its god.
                I’m not worried about arguments with a god that doesn’t exist or a ‘scripture’ that is not accurate, truthful or historically reliable

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              • Life is a proof of life. Nothing more. You’re interpretation of it having been created by specifically the god of the bible… that is what is being asked for. I know you know the difference

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              • Mike. How many times do I have to tell you. The ‘god’ of the bible that u refer to is a figment of the delusional.

                The true ‘God’ of scripture, however, has no competitor. Nature agrees with Him, arithmetic agrees with Him, and of course, as i mentioned to Gill, the human conscience testifies to this identical knowledge.

                But you know this already; you will come around. Someday.

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              • Thx for commenting. I’m happy you read my stuff. I actually love your writing style. Content is a bit flaky and undercooked, but hey… you’ll come around some day 😉

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              • So, you’re still confused about the existence of Jesus of Nazareth, but I’m supposed to give credence to your foolishly borrowed conclusion that the gospels were not written by people who knew Jesus!
                Almighty God! Your word cannot fail concerning the atheistic mindset!

                My definition conforms. Faith is placed in one who is true and real!- you know, like God [He is true and real!…You know this because you know that Jesus is true and real!]

                So the fact that Jesus is not true and real to you doesn’t mean He is not true and real to countless others who know Him and have a true and meaningful relationship with Him.

                If you cared about evidence and proof as you say you do, you would do the research as I have done for myself to establish for myself that Jesus is who He says He is… that there is demonstrable power to His name!

                Proving the existence of God is simple! – it’s Christ Jesus.
                When you can negate His divinity, then you can negate that He is God!
                You cannot!

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              • So you’re saying that all the scholarship that ages the gospels and the books of the new testament are wrong?

                You’re saying that even though the Jews who wrote the old testament that prophesized a messiah, who don’t even believe that Jesus was the messiah are wrong?

                There are literal eye witness accounts who knew that Mary didn’t have any sex with her husband but gave birth?

                You have some DNA evidence that I don’t know about?

                You have some eye witnesses at Galilee who liked the wine jesus made, but it was a little too Merlot and they would have preferred a pinot noir?

                I mean come on…God exists because Jesus exists, and Jesus was divine because God sent his only son…blah blah blah…that’s circular reason at it’s finest.

                Believe me. I’ve done the research. It was actually really important to me for at a time for me to be sure, because you know if Christianity was the one true religion and had all the answers well then I wanted to know. And when I actually went to sources beyond what religious fanatics were writing, things weren’t so clear anymore.

                “My definition conforms”.

                That’s the only sensible thing you’ve said. Your definition confirms to what you already believe to be true, not what’s actually true.

                You know it’s really dangerous to just say it’s okay to believe whatever you want regardless of the evidence.

                I don’t know…maybe ISIS right and you’re wrong. You seem nicer than ISIS…maybe that’s how I should determine what religion is right…by who is the nicest. Cool. But I know nice Buddhists and Hindus too. Christ I’m going to need some sort of rubric.

                Liked by 1 person

              • You’re confusing evidence with conclusions drawn based on evidence.
                Evidence do not interpret itself. People with their own philosophical biases and limitations interpret the evidence.

                In case you’re not aware, the gospels are based on eyewitness accounts! And were written that one may know that Jesus is who He claimed to be.

                Yes, I get it, you and your cohorts have ‘read it’ and are unconvinced by it. Too bad for you and them.
                That doesn’t change the reality of who Jesus is.

                He is known to and experienced by millions…billions really!

                If you’ve researched Christianity for yourself as you’ve claimed, you would know there’s power in the name of Jesus…that it’s not just a saying or a cliché.
                I can speak with authority on this because I’ve seen it and proven it for myself.
                The only reason you can attempt to compare Christianity with Buddhism and Hinduism etc. and think you’re making an equal comparison is because you have no clue the fundamentals of Christianity. Yes, you can regurgitate some information about Christianity but the reality is, you have no idea what it is you’re saying.

                You should be preaching your message to your godless friends and JZ who daily demonstrate that it’s okay for them to believe whatever they want regardless of the evidence.

                Christianity is based on evidence. If there were no evidence for the life, death and resurrection of Christ Jesus, you and I would not be here speaking of it!

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              • “That doesn’t change the reality of who Jesus is.
                He is known to and experienced by millions…billions really!”

                So is Muhammad.

                Also for a long time millions thought the Earth was at the center of the universe and everything revolved around it. Even millions of people can be deceived by their personal observations.

                “you would know there’s power in the name of Jesus”

                There is power in a lot of religious figures for those who have strong beliefs, because of how beliefs release dopamine in the brain.

                “Christianity is based on evidence. If there were no evidence for the life, death and resurrection of Christ Jesus, you and I would not be here speaking of it!”

                I understand what you consider evidence…and I understand why people think anecdotal evidence is valid, and why when people want to believe something really badly they can make evidence fit their narrative. All religions say they have evidence in the same way. Listen I know a lot about Christianity, I’ve read most of the bible, and many scholarly articles on it, and I know we’re never going to agree, but it’s clear that you don’t understand the process with really verifying knowledge in a scholarly way. Your very language indicates that you have at least…at the very least as much bias as I do. But I do know this, I’ve changed my mind about a lot of things in life based on evidence. Your views represent most of the true scholarship out there on the bible when you look at anonymously peer-reviewed research. Like I said from the beginning…I understand why you cannot change your mind. I know how the brain works on belief, and I know it resists removing those faith based underpinnings because the entire logical house cards will fall down. But at the very least you could try not being so hypocritical. Don’t call other people biased when you are being biased. Don’t try to convince us that anecdotal evidence means anything about universal truths admit that it’s your personal truth. Don’t be so foolish into thinking that millions even billions of people might be wrong. There are 1.5 billion muslims…clearly you think they are all wrong. So it’s hypocritical to think the ‘billions’ on your side are any more right. Just own it.

                And for the record I’ve seen the fundamentals of Christianity in action and it hasn’t always been good. However the fundamentals of good people do tend to always be good, and the fundamentals of bad people always tend to be bad regardless of their religion.

                I have no need to preach to the choir…but I figured someone who is clearly intelligent but rife with bias like yourself seems worth a conversation.

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              • A counterfeit does not negate the authenticity of the real deal Mr. Gill.

                If you can raise the dead and heal the sick in the name of Mohamed or any other false prophets and gods, then you have a point. As it stands right now, you don’t!

                Truth is not determined by the number of its adherents. If only 10,000 people believed that Christ Jesus is the Son of God, and is who He claims to be, with 7 billion dissenting, the claim of Christianity will still be true!

                Truth IS! and is totally independent of what you and I believe.
                I’m not right because Truth is on my side, I’m right because I am on the side of Truth!

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              • You contradict yourself. I know numbers don’t make for truth you are the one who made that argument. Also I’m sure there are many in any religions who believe their God had done those same miracles. There is nothing unique there. And you have no overwhelming evidence in your favor compared to other religions. So there is no guarantee that yours isn’t the counterfeit. But I know you don’t even see the other point of view anymore given the many points I’ve made that you’ve failed to address. Your dopamine levels are high indeed.

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              • There is no contradiction.
                I stated a fact, that Jesus is known and experienced by millions… billions even, of people.

                Then I stated this truth… that even if there were only 10,000 believers, the truth of Christianity remains – because truth is not dependent on its adherents.

                I am not speaking of God doing miracles. I am speaking of an individual being able to use the authority of the name of Jesus to do manifest the power of God.

                The reality is, you have no idea what I have.
                Well, there is a guarantee to know which is counterfeit! If you’d done your research like you said, you would know this.

                I ignore your points because I know you don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s that simple!
                Even a ‘true’ Satanist or occultist has more knowledge & sense (in this regard) than you.

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              • Proving the existence of god… Jesus! Well then, let’s get to one of my original questions for you.
                1st century contemporary, non biblical sources for the life, death, resurrection of the Jesus spoken of in the nt… chop chop, we’re waiting

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              • Swarn, my thinking currently is that the Jesus of the nt has no 1st century contemporary evidence or testimony outside the nt. If there actually was a Jesus or Joshua person, he was nothing like the nt fictional character. I leave it to cs and ancients to demonstrate with evidence and historical reference that the Jesus of the NT actually lived

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              • Ignorance of somethings does not necessitate enforced ignorance of everything. Your Biblical God does not win by default. You still have to prove the actual existence of his, and the existence of the Spirit separated from the body. Which you have ignored

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              • No sir, your answer was “believe and you will see that it’s all true” dork! Mormons, Muslims, Hindus and scientologists all say the same for their gods

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            • Created in the image and likeness of God, but not physically. God is Spirit, has no body. So the only way mankind can be ‘made in His Image’ is in a Trinity of sorts… body, soul and spirit. Body, the physical representation (like the Son is the ‘express image’ of God, from Hebrews 1), the Soul: mind, will and emotions… what makes you ‘You’ (like the Father is the ‘You’ that identifies the godhead) and the Spirit of man which communicates and is most in tune with the wishes and desires of God (as the HS is the comforter and revealer of God’s thoughts to mankind) it’s the Spirit of man, having been dead by the original sin curse of Adam to the whole race as its Federal Head, that is ‘reborn’ in the Soul of who he is when he comes to Faith in Christ as redeemer/Lord.

              Of course, now we know this to be total and complete BS but I once taught it as clearly and forcefully and as confidently to the men I discipled in the Faith. Clear enough?

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  1. You know I really think that a big part of the problem with their reasoning with this “if we came from apes why are there still apes?” question is because they are still thinking in terms of everything coming from one couple like Adam and Eve. It’s really not how it works at all. I mean you have a population of a lot of them…some get geographically separated in a slightly different climate zone where it’s harder to survive unless certain adaptations occur…some of the population over time develop these adaptations while the ones that don’t struggle to survive, don’t breed and die out. Meanwhile the original population that stayed in their natural habitat are doing just fine. I really think that they think it’s like one evolved ape couple that was sort of human and they had a more human baby and so on into incest orgy heaven and boom with have humans and no apes. I don’t know…this just popped into my head as a possible explanation. lol

    Liked by 1 person

    • They do think this, and more. Not long ago Colourstorm stated that i had to show him a hyena with a whale’s blowhole. No, I’m not kidding. They really do think (I feel strange even typing that word here) the Theory of Evolution states new species are birthed, complete. That level of stupidity is mindblowing. What is happening in US schools that produces adults with such flawed thinking abilities?

      Liked by 2 people

      • I wish I knew. I went to school in Canada. And by the time they get to me in university they are already damaged goods. lol

        Honestly I think a big part of it is the xenophobia and American exceptionalism that is bred here. The idea that we are the best and nobody else has anybody of value to learn I think extends to people in their individual lives. “I already know everything, this is how it is, and there is nothing left to learn”. When you couple that with an education system that is focused on dollars over producing a quality student so spends its time testing a student’s ability to memorize over their ability to think, the results end up being disastrous. That’s probably what I’d boil it down to the most, but even that would be oversimplifying the problem I suppose.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Zande, you are non-stop hilarious. Do find that quote and produce it. Are you sure you got the right man, or is this another case of false accusations……………..’ You have a habit of assigning things to people without context. And of course knowitalls gobble up your words also, due to sloppy study.

        —-Not long ago Colourstorm stated that i had to show him a hyena with a whale’s blowhole. No, I’m not kidding.——

        You may be looking for awhile. Or ARE u kidding…………

        Liked by 1 person

            • That’s right, Gill. I am aware of my own words. And I am also aware when someone assigns something to be wrongly.

              You may also be pleased to know that a fav. of mine is to cite apes for their inability of tying their shoes……..and let me add………..while hyena’s laugh in the distance……….

              So there ya go.

              Liked by 1 person

              • I didn’t say you weren’t, it’s just that John’s story makes sense given that your knowledge of the animal world, which is only slightly better than God’s, is still miniscule as gathered from our discussion of animal behavior.

                Others have been giving me the scoop on your MO and I have to say I agree. I can’t decide whether your favorite logical fallacy is Straw Man, Moving the Goal Posts, Personal Incredulity, or Black-or-White. I’m going to go with Straw Man. You do it quite well. Nevertheless you have successfully demonstrated that dogs do not talk, and I congratulate you on that victory, even though nobody else was arguing that point. You nailed it. I’m humble enough to admit it.

                Liked by 1 person

              • Sorry Gill, it is YOU who have moved the posts.

                I have consistently said they ‘do not lie.’ But my MO? Ha, that’s easy.

                Just an acknowledgement of the living God, to whom, and through whom, you deny.

                Liked by 1 person

              • Ha! You’re right with me you have not moved the goalposts with me but I have watched you do it with others. You have very consistently made an assertion, not provided an argument proving that assertion, selectively chosen a portion of the dictionary definition of the word “lie”, and ignored all scholarly knowledge that animals do in fact lie.

                I have met many who acknowledge the living God with more knowledge of how the world works than you. But you argue more as a con man rather than someone who is completely ignorant. It’s fascinating to watch.

                Liked by 1 person

              • Well then let me say I know very little compared to God’s understanding which is infinite; but what little I know I am certain.

                Compared to others who pretend to know, and in their dismissal of the Creator’s earth and all that is, they prove they know nothing.

                ‘In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.’

                You have been conned to not believe it.

                ‘He made the stars also……’

                You have been conned to not believe it. You will lose every argument against the truth of God and scripture. Every one. Every time.

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              • See that’s not how argumentation and debate works. I see root of your problem. You think just by saying something, that makes it so… Where as for many other people they realize that testing, collecting data, looking for consistency and using inductive reasoning is important to understanding the universe.

                God’s knowledge of the animal world was so small that he failed to describe anything nominally detailed about them. He apparently even thought that collecting a pair of animals native to a small geographic region could somehow repopulate all the animals in the world with the right amount of genetic variation. It’s almost as if the bible was written by men, a long time ago when we didn’t know very much about the world. Given that you seem to consider this bible a vast source of knowledge about the natural world explains a lot about why you know so little.

                Of I’ve been bamboozled then it’s been done by the very same principles of discovery which have brought you the medium which allows you to espouse your vacuous arguments. Such principles as it turns out to be much more reliable than your method of knowing truth. But please continue your state of cognitive dissonance. It adds an amusing touch of irony to everything you say.

                “”I reject science on this medium brought to you by science!”

                Like

              • Let me correct you once more Gill.

                The root, that is, the beginning of all that is, is not housed in the stale intellect of men.

                The root is Owner of which all that is, is. Get it? He is before everything, and by Him, all things consist, both of things seen, and unseen.

                Thus does nature bow to its Creator. And true science will always agree.

                True science laughs at the absurd notions of the godless mind. Arithmetic sings the praises of the living God. Such is the agreement and symphony of truth.

                Like

              • These are all unsubstantiated premises. You are now even changing the meaning of science as you did the heading of the word “lie”. I am sure this works on other people who aren’t fond of critical thinking, but it doesn’t work on me. You are the poster child of bringing a knife to

                Liked by 1 person

              • Unsubstantiated? What, you deny that an acorn produces an oak tree? Of course you do not.

                But you deny the tree itself, as Designed by the Master Landscaper.

                It must be dreadful for you to know that many scientists bow to the living God, knowing there are no alternatives, based on testable observations and common sense.

                Like

              • We deny that you have substantiated that your specific god, the biblical god of christianity, create the oak, the acorn or any part of the process

                Like

              • “tree itself, as Designed by the Master Landscaper”

                Prove this then. Show me how science verifies this.

                Just because a scientist believes in a creator, doesn’t mean science proves creation. It just means that even scientist can make mistakes. Or that people believe things for various for reasons that might have more to do with emotion than intellectual satisfaction. Again you seem to be confused with the basic tenets of logical proof work.

                Liked by 2 people

              • No Gill, it is not my responsibility to prove the Creator is.

                The onus is on you to stop denying the obvious.

                And by the way, the good book also proves God is true, for the rebellion of men has been written about for ages.

                Like

              • Haha…that’s a laugh. You fail in the most basic tenets of logic. You are the one asserting the existence of a supernatural being, not me. Thus it is your idea that you have put forth, therefore it is up to you to prove it. A book written by men is evidence of an unseen power on an alternate plane of existence who is both omniscience and omnipotent?

                By your logic I could assert the existence of anything and it would be up to you to disprove it. Which you could not do, since I never proved the existence in the first place.

                I’ve seen unicorns…I have. I know other people that have as well. No, I can’t show you them…they said they don’t want to appear to a lot of people. Only people they’v chosen. No I don’t have any photos…but I personally experienced them. No you can’t doubt my personal experience. But I know. I have a relationship with them.

                See how simple it is.

                You want proof in a book. Well there are lots of books about it. Sure they are referred to as fictional, but fiction is based on truth. But I am going to write a book all about my experience with unicorns and the power they possess, and then unicorns will officially exist because the book says so. Even if you don’t believe me. All those who mock me, will suffer eternal punishment eventually when their singular horn pierces the flesh. They aren’t violent really, but they really just want you to develop a relationship with them and appreciate them. Without them the forests and fields would die. And yet in their wrath at man for cutting the forests they start forest fires. Sometimes they do it through careless campers…sometimes they do it through lightning strikes. Blessed are the unicorns.

                Liked by 1 person

              • Perhaps…but even a lawyer can build and argument based on solid evidence should he or she choose. But yes this is definitely the case of a lawyer whose client is guilty as hell and is trying to misdirect, blame the judge, blame the jury….anything but deal with the facts of the case. lol

                Liked by 1 person

              • @ark
                swarn
                mike
                etc etc

                What you boys fail to realize regarding the courtroom scenerio:

                The ultimate Judge is perfect, and flawless in His reasoning. He determines the standards of life, not the petty chipmunks or laughing hyenas who joke about the tidal waves of godless ignorance.

                Now listen to the gavel. Case closed. It has long been settled. And mike. Your stubbornness grows with each comment.

                And to you all: God has never lost an argument to ants. Without the truth of scripture, we but run in circles pretending to be industrious or wise; at least ants do not boast.

                Like

              • Whatever floats your boat Gill. And while you are at it, be sure to write about all the morons who wrote about snow five hundred years ago.

                But you don’t believe them; they are idiots right. There is no proof it snowed five hundred years ago. White flakes from the sky? What clown has seen such a thing? Snow ha? These people are lunatics. There is no proof!

                Thus does your own inability to use common sense tighten the noose around your own ignorance. You should take advantage of feeling so small compared to the Creator. Too bad your large ego gets in the way. Snow Gill snow. Use your God given brain.

                Like

              • Actually we don’t know from people writing about snow that it snowed. But we do know that it snows, we know the conditions that makes snow, and those scientific principles allow for the predictability of snow, so we know that is reliable model. We also have evidence of snow in glaciers which represents 1000’s of years of snowfall, so we can measure at least snow in that area throughout the past few hundred thousand years or so. So no one person’s writing of snowfall is necessarily guaranteed, but we could look for other historical sources that talked about the snowfall, we also know snowfall can actually be observed today, unlike God, talking serpents, immaculate conceptions, animals repopulating from just two of the species, people popping back to life with no injuries after a long crucifiction, etc.

                So let’s add the fallacy of false equivalence to your ever growing failures in argumentation skills. I’m making a logical fallacy bingo sheet for you CS…It’s blackout bingo. I’m sure I’ll have it in no time!

                Like

              • Apparently Gill you are unable to follow a line of thought.

                You do not know from people writing that it snowed? Of course not, you think they are liars, the same way you think the records of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are lies.

                If a good man of character told me it snowed, I need not verify his eyesight.
                This is your inherent distrust of mankind.

                Scripture condemns your arrogance, and you do not like the results. I’ll go one further. It snowed two thousand years ago. I do not have to see it, because good people wrote about it.

                Their word is good, so unlike the lies of atheism.

                Like

              • I knew it wouldn’t be long. Now your logical fallacy is Appeal to Authority. You never fail to disappoint to disappoint. My colleague teaches an introductory logic course. You’re like a gold mine of educational value to those students of what not to do in argumentation. Perhaps you’d like to help out. lol

                Liked by 1 person

              • That’s right gill, at least I recognize the greatest Authority of all; He who owns the very dirt you walk on as a tresspasser.

                So yes, at least I have respect for the maker of dirt. Who do you have respect for, other than the dry guesses of borrowed intellect?

                Like

              • Ah, ad hominem attacks now (puts another black mark on the bingo card).

                But what you don’t recognize is that authority only exists through faith and not in any empirical way. But even it did, it wouldn’t change the logically fallacious nature of saying something is so just because the authority figure said it was so.

                I respect people who respect the process. That is where ultimately my respect lies. You don’t understand the process, you default to authority which is why you are intellectually weak and can’t make a logical argument. I respect people also with humility to recognize that whatever they believe to be true might not actually be true. I can accept my mistakes and change my mind when someone shows me through the process that has been demonstrated time and time again to be the most reliable and uncovering knowledge that I was wrong. The very same process that allows you to argue your logically fallacious gibberish on your electronic device of choice is the same process you reject. I am sure there is a name for that logical fallacy, but I can’t remember it. But I do know that it is intellectually dishonest. And I cannot have respect for intellectual dishonesty.

                Liked by 1 person

              • You cannot sink a submarine with a pea shooter gill.

                Your responses are increasingly vapid and boring.

                Perhaps you need to experience a raging flood to see just how your lack of respect for authority actually is.

                But intellectually weak you say? Ha, that is funny. Answer: Where were you when the stars wee put in place?

                Where were you when the human brain, blood, and conscience were designed?

                Authority gill, authority. Why in God’s good name do you think there are supreme courts on earth, if not to appeal to the highest authority available?

                The wise judges understand there is an authority still higher than theirs………

                Like

              • If you think the ideas of the bible or yours represent a submarine, you are delusional since they don’t stand up to scientific rigor or any kind of logical foundation.

                “Where were you when the stars were put in place? Where were you when the human brain, blood, and conscience were designed?”

                You just asked a loaded question. It’s incredible how you make one logical fallacy after another. It’s like you are doing it on purpose. Perhaps you are, and then testing me to see if I can spot them. A fun game indeed, but I am growing tired of playing since I am blowing up KIAs blog to do it.

                https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/loaded-question

                Tell you what, I’ll save my bingo card for the next time we run into each in another blog in the future. There’s a few that I’m quite certain you are apt to make. That’s one thing that I have to respect about you is that you are extremely reliable in your ability to make logically fallacious arguments. Ironically with scientific like reliability. It’s honestly giving me pause for that, because someone who was so bad at logic almost doesn’t seem like something that could be naturally occurring in nature…so maybe there is a God after all. lol So by losing the argument so bad, you may actually be winning. That was a level of cleverness I did not predict. Well done!

                Liked by 1 person

              • Here’s a better loaded question gill:

                God asks Adam: Where are you? Loaded with truth to be sure. Loaded with self incrimination. Loaded with piercing scrutiny.

                And loaded with the grace of God. Have a nice day though.

                Like

              • Loaded answer, no such thing actually happened. It’s a cultural myth no where recorded other than the book of genesis written well after the time it was supposed to have happened by someone who could not have been there.

                Like

              • Haha…I did too…I mean was genuinely curious at how many logical fallacies he could commit in one conversation. But I figured it was time to move on. Maybe he can go into training and do better next time. Either more egregious instances of logical fallacies or actual substantive debate. I’m good either way! lol

                Liked by 1 person

              • No… cs, it is actually your onus, or responsibility to demonstrate what you claim to be true, to actually be true, in order for people to actually take it seriously as a warning from heaven of an impending hell. You just refuse because you know you can’t

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              • Good gravy mike, Gill, and whosoever is in the bleachers.

                The scriptures simply confirm what is wired into your conscience.

                Don’t gripe to me about proof of what you already have and know. Grow up already and use your God given brain.

                In the beginning God………wait! you know this already. But your rebellion knows no bounds and it is tiring to hear your continued childish antics.

                I do apologize for pulverizing your bizarre blindness on your own blog.

                Like

              • No apology needed, not even after your very poor ‘apologia’. No one has been pulverized, obliterated. And apparantly, cs… our mouths have not been shut either

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              • Eh, keep the apology mike. They are rare. 😉

                But a correction, sure mouths ARE stopped. God’s word does have that effect, as in a man trying to hide his guilt at the highest of tribunals.

                Like

              • Surely you’ve lost the ability to hear free men still speaking or see their mouths still jesticulating. Maybe you just think they are stopped because you are blinded and deafened to hear or see anything that fails to confirm what you already want to believe.
                Thus.. choosing ignorance, blindness and deafness

                Like

              • Wow… it’s been awhile since you replied after the CS ‘storm’ of comments back and forth. Does the “lion sleep tonight” or has he gone after weaker, sicker prey, less able to defend themselves?

                Like

              • Fascinating story. It’s a fabulous work of fiction, but the entire story is a Straw Man for the reasons why I dismiss the idea of a creator, or at the very least a personal God as in Christianity. Truly I can never disprove an entity that has never been actually proven.

                Your writing does reveal you to be clever in that con man sort of way. The question becomes are you just trying to con people, or have you also conned yourself? Only your conscience knows the answer to that question.

                Liked by 2 people

              • Yeah, I especially liked the part about the kid’s quip about the clouds being the dust of God’s feet.

                Quite insightful by the little fella, only to be dismissed instantly by the ‘learned engineer.’

                Out of the mouth of babes kinda thing. Then there is always the testimony of the oceans…………

                Like

              • Your reasoning by false equivalence just adds to your growing list of logical fallacies. It’s amazing how when your whole world view rests on premises that exist only in faith and nowhere else, the mental gymnastics required is immense, this is why you have to use so many fallacious tactics to win an argument.

                Liked by 2 people

    • I’m sure I didn’t really think much past Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, when I was a Christian. Now I think it’s obvious the population genetics and small changes over long durations of time that shaped and molded the way we evolved

      Liked by 2 people

      • Indeed…I also do think that we as humans really just do have a problem conceptualizing such long expanses of time. Our brains didn’t really evolve to think of time in terms of millions of years. I get why evolution is in some ways hard to grasp…but that doesn’t make it less true, or less worth the effort to try and understand. I do think the mind really wants to keep time short, and the universe simple.

        Liked by 1 person

  2. Reblogged this on Scotties Toy Box and commented:
    I love the ideas expressed here. I do not have the skills of the authors of this blog and the commenter yet I can clearly see what is in front of me. I admire the blog host and feel sorry for C.S. I admit I don’t have much interest in those that will not open themselves to honest debate but I admire those who keep trying to get them to see the real world that doesn’t include their god. Many hugs

    Liked by 1 person

    • Scottie your the best. Don’t ever think just because your experience or knowledge is not what others is that you have nothing to say or its inferior. You have a powerful voice and the reverse is true also. I don’t have your knowledge or experience either. You are the best you the world will ever have. And the world needs to hear you too. Thx for the reblog and the hugs. Love you -kia

      Liked by 1 person

  3. I described the conversation between Swarn and Colorstorm to one of my dogs and asked her if she thought CS was lying: One woof for No and two woofs for Yes. She barked twice.

    I then asked if she thought Ancients was a delusional, ignorant half-wit with less brains than a Turnip. She hasn’t stopped barking…
    Okay, that’s enough now, Bella. Sssh!

    Liked by 1 person

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