Chromosome Two and Evolution Destroy Biblical Christianity 

Christian Ken Miller destroys intelligent design. 

Francis Collins has just chosen to continue to Believe by Faith and synthesize where possible.

Here’s a comment I left in answer to JB on his post. He seems to think Francis Collins agrees fully with Intelligent Design AND the biblical account of creation. JB may have both a mistaken understanding of what Collins really believes about the bible and science, and what it means to be a biblical Christian. 

I’m sure you can understand JB, that once you accept the concept of human evolution, the idea portrayed in Genesis and the Bible that God created mankind from the dirt and breathed life into him in a single day, single act of creation becomes a myth. A myth that all of the characters in the bible, including a supposed all knowing man/god jesus, believed as fact. 

That’s why as a Christian, a biblically consistent and honest one anyway, one cannot accept evolution and still accept the Bible in any literal way as explanation for the way reality actually is. 

Francis Collins is a scientist who holds to his christianity by faith by ignoring the glaring inconsistencies between what he knows to be true and what he must ‘believe to be True ™’ as part of his religion.

One cannot be both a true scientist and a True Christian.

-kia

“If the foundations be destroyed…”

It’s just not possible to be both both a True Scientist, committed to the facts, evidence and Truth and be a True Christian, committed to the bible, and the biblical account of creation, or as it’s called nowadays Intelligent Design. Anyone who tells you that it is… is either being dishonest or deluding themselves so they can hold onto their Faith in the face of Facts.

Neither Collins or Miller hold onto their Faith by evidence or scientific facts. They both hold onto their Faith by Faith, despite evidence, facts and scientific inquiry. Collins is just more dishonest or deluded about it than Miller.  

-kia

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44 thoughts on “Chromosome Two and Evolution Destroy Biblical Christianity 

    • Yes he did.

      “He’s a scientist.
      Scientists draw conclusions from their research.
      Collins became a Christian partly because of his scientific discoveries.”

      That is as plain a statement as there ever could be that Francis Collins is a Christian, in part, because of the scientific discoveries that have verified at least some of the truth claims of Christianity. It implies that he did research to verify the truth claims about his God and religion. This is simply not the case. The reason that Francis Collins is a Christian has everything to do with, history, geography and circumstance (where he was born and when) and absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with scientific discoveries of any kind. In his book The Language of God” he explicitly states that he was out hiking one day, saw a stream frozen in 3 parts and then fell to the dewy grass and accepted Jesus as his lord and Savior. There is nothing scientific about that process or any other part of Christianity for that matter.
      It’s been mentioned by Mike once already and it bears repeating. Cognitive Dissonance. That’s the reason he can hold simultaneously incompatible and contradictory views and defend them. The power of religious persuasion and inculcation is that great.

      Liked by 1 person

        • Unfortunately I cannot watch it right now because I am at work and youtube is disabled (all video streaming services are). However, I am familiar with Francis Collins. I have read about him and I have listened to him debate (with Ben Carson) Richard Dawkins and Dan Dennett. I know that he is a great scientist and that he is also a believing Christian. However, because he is both of those things, does not mean that they are compatible in any way. Isaac Newton, the father of modern science who invented calculus, also believed in, practiced, and wrote books about alchemy. This in no way implies that alchemy is compatible with science.
          JB might not have said anything about ID, but he most certainly numerous things about what Collins thinks – namely that science and religion are compatible when they clearly are not. They are 2 completely different endeavors. The former relies on hypothesis formation, data gathering, analysis, testing, falsification and peer review. The latter relies on faith (belief without evidence or in spite of evidence to the contrary), authoritarianism and inculcation. I’ve personally listened to Collins argue about a great many things that “prove” (his) gods existence when they do nothing of the sort.
          The reason that Collins doesn’t agree with the term ID, is because it is completely incompatible with evolution and is not scientific. It is a propaganda term for creationism. It’s got no basis in fact at all. Collins accepts the facts of evolution and ignores all of the massive problems it creates for his belief in (his) god. Like for example, Genesis – which, if one accepts evolution, cannot possibly be true. Man was not created first and given dominion over all other species on earth. Evolution proves that humans (homosapiens) have been a distinct species for no more than 250 000 years. There are other species (dinosaurs for example, which are not mentioned in he bible) that predate humans existence for 10’s and 100’s of millions of years.

          Liked by 1 person

          • “Unfortunately I cannot watch it right now…”

            That’s all you needed to say. (Unfortunately, I cannot read the rest of your comment because I’m also at work. But I’m familiar with Atheists who jump into a discussion without the background info. So I’ll make my point again.)

            KIA has no right to rant about what JB “seems” to think about ID. They’ve never talked about it. In fact, JB attempted to ask which parts of science and Christianity are incompatible, but KIA flat refuses to answer. Whenever he’s asked to defend a statement, Mike simply retreats back to his blog to share only his half of the conversation, and apparently turns into a mind-reader for the other half.

            So, I’m calling him out for that. And to go even further by saying that “TRUE Christians” can’t agree with Collins is something only a Fundamentalist Know-it-All would say. (I thought KIA quit that job?) I have no idea how he defines “intelligent design.” Nor what he means by “true” Christianity. Nor what he believes to be the “biblical account” of Creation. But, if KIA believes that Ken Ham and his Young Earth fans are the ONLY “true Christians,” then he still has some recovering to do…

            On the other hand–if it’s okay to decide that Collins or Miller or JB aren’t “true” Christians, then I’ll go ahead and make some observations of my own. *clears throat* : “It seems that Pastor Mike has a very narrow definition of Christianity. And, it seems, he may not know what he believes anymore, although he still reads the Bible like a Fundamentalist Baptist. My diagnosis: cognitive dissonance. The power of secular persuasion and inculcation is that great!”

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            • Sorry Amanda, I’ve long since given up on the idea of being able to have honest, open, rational discussion with you. If that seems like retreat or refusal then interpret as you will. Have a great day

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              • Yeah. My fault you won’t answer questions.

                Got it.

                (*rolls eyes*)

                See ya next time things get boring over here, Pastor! But, eventually your readers are going to figure out that you’re still a Know-It-All. ESPECIALLY if you keep linking back to the Sojourn and they actually care enough to investigate.

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            • I have already answered your question. Which parts of science and Christianity are incompatible? ALL OF IT.
              The methodologies are incompatible. I’ve already explained why. Not surprising it’s gone in one ear and out the other.
              You just go right ahead and keep defending JB’s claims that since Collins is a Christian and a scientist, they must be compatible while ignoraing that since Newton was an alchemist and a scientist, those 2 disciplines must be also compatible.
              Clearly, since you’re a Christian, you have the mystery of the universe all figured out.
              You go girl!!!!!

              Liked by 2 people

        • But if only I’d watched that video. I too might have he mystery of the universe all figured out like mrsmcmomny. But alas I am just a mere atheist who “doesn’t have all the background info.”
          Poor me 😦

          Liked by 1 person

          • No, I realized you don’t have all the background info when you said that Man was created first in Genesis. That’s when I understood that you aren’t well-informed.

            It’s okay. I know it’s a shock to hear from religious people who know some stuff. It’s strange when you’ve heard that all “True” Christians are Bible-thumping, Science-denying, group-thinking nitwits–but then you’re stuck trying to paint ALL smart, religious people as “cognitively dissonant.” It’s kind of a tough hypothesis to support.

            Anyway, I’ve stayed long enough, so I’m going back home.

            Fair warning, if the Pastor continues linking to us, though: we are not “True” Christians, and we don’t accept lazy answers to questions. If JB asked you “What parts of Christianity are incompatible with science” and you answered “All of it” we would just laugh at you… That’s the kind of stuff that Pastor Mike couldn’t get away with, and then he started whining about being mistreated.

            We expect critics to know what they’re talking about, (((links removed by blog author… no free advertisement here for you, Amanda.-kia)))

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            • FYI sweetheart, there isn’t a single person on this planet who doesn’t practice cognitive dissonance, myself included. I have a dog and I consider myself an animal lover. However, I am also a meat eater. I know that automatically makes me a hypocrite at the very least. Every time I sit down to eat a meal, I practice cognitive dissonance by not thinking about the suffering of the animals that I am about to consume while simultaneously being horrified at the thought of my dog suffering the same fate. There is no possible argument I could ever give to justify that position. The difference between me and Collins? I KNOW that I am practicing cognitive dissonance and being a hypocrite. I’m not making excuses for it and pretending that because I love my dog that it excuses all of the suffering of other animals who aren’t my dog. I don’t need to make videos to show everyone that since I am a dog and animal lover, that being so is compatible with being a meat eater.
              “What parts of Christianity are incompatible with science” and you answered “All of it” we would just laugh at you… ”
              You keep right on laughing my dear. I know you don’t realize it, but the joke is on you.
              The period is commonly referred to as The Enlightenment or The Age of Enlightenment, which occurred in the mid 18th century. That’s when people started to look outside the bible for answers to the world around and instead relied on the scientific method. That people still think and talk like you, is a great testament to the power of authoritarianism, inculcation and brainwashing.

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            • I like listening to old sermons by Christian pastors, even though I no longer believe. I do this as it helps me to understand Christian thinking and also I am now able to see how their presuppositions affect their conclusions.

              Among those preachers I listen to are Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones. He is considered among the greatest preachers of the 20th century and is universally recognised as a person with a brilliant intellect. However his worldview was based on acceptance of the Bible as being the inerrant word of ‘God’. This meant he rejected evolution, because he knew that it was incompatible with the teaching of the Bible.

              What I do wonder if whether he would still hold that view today (he died 35 years ago) as the scientific evidence for evolution continue to mounts.

              I suppose I am just trying to say that even highly intelligent people can at times reach wrong conclusions.

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  1. Holy smokes, did you see that last video!?!? Surely that proves that there is one God (the Christian one ONLY) and that science and Christianity are compatible.
    We call that “the case cracker”!

    Liked by 1 person

    • Oh, and Ashley?
      I never said any “case-cracking” stuff you assumed. I don’t believe that religious scientists have proved the existence of God–and I certainly never said the Christian God is the “ONLY” one.
      But I’m very clear now why you hang around on KIA’s blog:

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      • Whoops. Beasts and man were separated by a day, which according to evolution is tru…oh no wait it isnt. “Beasts” predate humans by over one hundred million years. Perhaps I would also know that light and darkness came 3 days before the sun, which is the source of the light and darkness. It’s almost as if the people who wrote this book didn’t know what the fuck they were talking about.
        If only I was more well versed in genesis, I’d know more about the natural order of the world. Whoa is me.
        To be a Christian is, by definition, to be a monotheist. You can say “I never said that the Christian god is the only one” until you’re blue in the face. Your position mandates it.
        See that’s the problem with people like you. You talk before you think. Unless you want to take this opportunity to tell me about all the other gods you believe in!?!? Then perhaps you can tell me how being a polytheist is compatible with being a Christian.
        Or perhaps you’d rather do your usual tap dancing and arm flailing routine and avoid answering the question altogether?

        Liked by 2 people

        • Tap dancing and arm flailing is why discussing with Amanda is pretty much a waste of time. That and she actually justifies biblical slavery, then equates parent/child relationship with indentured servitude. Total waste of time. Bye amanda

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          • The links you removed were to YOUR comments, Pastor.

            It’s interesting when you have to tell Ashley what to think of me, and won’t allow her to read a conversation for herself.

            Jackass.

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          • Oh I have read through many a comment from her and her equally idiotic father. I am sure that more modest and perhaps sincere Christians should be at the very least concerned by their ability to swallow even the most ridiculous, unbelievable tenets of Christianity wholesale and stoop to the lowest depths imaginable to defend it. But then again, when you are as smart as they are, it’s hard not to sound condescending and superior isn’t it?

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        • Yeah, I’ve found that the most curious and sincerely-interested people will ask me questions about my worldview that are peppered with sarcasm and include the word “Fuck.” 😉

          (Did you sense my sarcasm there? That’s to let you know I’m just as uninterested in having this conversation as you are…)

          We both believe we’ve got the other person completely figured out, so we don’t need to hear more. But, if you change your mind, there are dozens of posts and hundreds of comments demonstrating an open-minded Christian belief system at the Sojourn. (Surprisingly, the comment section is more than just the one, “brilliant” comment that KIA often writes just so he can immediately repost it for his readers and demonstrate how clever he is.) There are other points and counterpoints that he sometimes forgets to include. 🙂

          For instance, we’ve suggested perhaps “Jesus” and “Lo” are the same God– and other scandalous things which a black-and-white thinker would probably call “tap-dancing” so they can give up and still tell themselves they gave it a good effort…

          But, whatever. 🙂

          If you want religious text and conversations to sound like a math textbook, you’re going to be disappointed. (Although Ken Ham and Ray Comfort would agree with you exactly.)
          https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/09/18/why-we-cant-find-gods-bones/

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          • ”But, if you change your mind, there are dozens of posts and hundreds of comments demonstrating an open-minded Christian belief system at the Sojourn.”

            LOL! Oh, that is truly, hopelessly priceless! You and your father are two of the most pathetic apologists I’ve ever encountered on the interwebs.

            Here’s your MO

            The bible is absolutely true… Until it isn’t, and then only fools would believe such a thing.

            Jesus is absolutely the son of Yhwh, and is Yhwh… Until he isn’t, and then only fools would believe such a thing.

            Yhwh is the single god, God, perfect… Until he isn’t, and then only fools would believe such a thing… and whoever said I believed in Yhwh??? I don’t believe in Yhwh, Yhwh is silly… Until he isn’t, that is.

            The Exodus really happened… Until it didn’t, and then only fools would believe such a thing.

            The Patriarchs were real… Until they weren’t, and then only fools would believe such a thing.

            Your hypocricy is astounding, until it isn’t, and then it’s just sad.

            Liked by 1 person

            • You forgot to warn Ashley, “John and his daughter have logged in as different users, to make it look like they get more traffic. Something, something, something, IP Addresses!!!” (*wink, wink*) LOL!

              I’m sorry you came to the conversations assuming that we’re literalist fundies who throw around words like “absolutely.” But I’ve never said anything close to the phrases you try to put in my mouth… (If I did, we all know you’d have a screenshot. lol!) I understand why it’s more fun to ask gotcha questions of the people who chant “Every Word of the Bible is Literally True.” It must be frustrating when the mice refuse to be caught.

              Here’s your MO: find out whether you’re talking to a Christian FIRST, so you can build a cozy box for them–and then complain when they don’t believe what you think they’re supposed to. Apparently, you also rush to tell other Atheists what to think in advance, instead of letting them find out for themselves. But, I don’t blame you for worrying that others will go read. You know from personal experience what I said about “looking stupid” and “being laughed at.”

              Whoooosh!

              Now, really, this is my last comment here. Even after supposedly ending his “monthly purge,” our good Pastor STILL reserves the right to edit comments without warning, so I don’t trust him. (Also, I assume you’ll let him know that editing my comment is “pathetic beyond measure.”) 😉

              Link (if it doesn’t get removed): https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/12/27/reasons-for-god/comment-page-1/#comment-10077

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              • Wowee wow wow! If THAT link doesn’t prove that there is only one god (the Christian one) and that science and Christianity are compatible, I don’t know what does!
                You’ve really outdone yourself!
                Fucking moron.

                Liked by 1 person

          • You are either a Christian, which means that you believe there is only one God, or you’re not. If Lo and Jesus are the same god, then you’re still a monotheist. I don’t give a shit if you’ve got 1000 different names for the same god, you still only believe in one god. Do you even understand what the difference between monotheism and polytheism is? Based on what you have written, I would surmise not.
            Christianity is a monotheism. You are either a Christian or you aren’t. WHICH IS IT?

            Where in the world did you come up with the notion that Mike is telling me what to think of you? Are you really that deluded?
            If you want to know what I think of you, just ask. It think you’re a fucking ignoramus who hides behind a smug veneer of superiority. You couldn’t honestly answer a question if your life depended on it. You wouldn’t know what the phrase “open-minded”, and what a logical fallacy was if it slapped you in the face. You’re open minded?!?!? Who the fuck are you trying to kid?!?! If all, and I mean ALL paths don’t lead back to YOUR god, they’re wrong. You rail against unbelievers and atheists as if WE were the ones making unfounded assertions about the nature of the universe, while you simultaneously worship the bronze-age god of a stupid death-cult like Christianity who apparently has all the answers you’ll ever need. Even though you’ve been told, numerous times, that Mike is not and never has been a pastor, you continue to refer to him as such. Why? Because you’re a smarmy arrogant bitch who enjoys tormenting people for your own pleasure. You’re an insufferable, human being. I feel so sorry for your children that they have to endure a piece of human garbage like you for a mother. With a little luck and a lot of counseling, maybe they’ll be able to break these chains of bondage and serfdom that you and dear old dad have worked an entire lifetime to forge and make something of themselves instead of doing….the “comedy” that your dad does and whatever the fuck it is you do with your pathetic useless life.

            Liked by 1 person

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