My Journey pt 2: “Total Immersion”

(((Reposting from last January)))

Immersed and Permeated

“907baptízō – properly, “submerge” (Souter); hence, baptize, to immerse (literally, “dip under“). 907 (baptízō) implies submersion (“immersion”), in contrast to 472/antéxomai (“sprinkle”)”.

-From Strong’s Greek

After I had finished high school, I joined the army and ended up in South Korea. The place where I was posted was somewhat north of the “fun” part of SK, but not quite to the “fun” part of NK. I was on a base just south of the DMZ, attached to a helicopter battalion.

As a young man of just 20 yrs old, and having come from a small town in the Midwest, I was free to experience all that the army and the world had to offer. Up to that time I was a church going, and nominally believing ‘Christian’ for a couple of years following my believing in Christ at the age of 15 (see my previous post), however the newness of the freedom I was enjoying had led me down the paths of drunkenness and debauchery. Alcoholism and possibly other diseases that could result from my behaviors were sure to be at the bottom of that Roller Coaster Ride.

About one year into what would be my two years and two months stint, I met a brother who was Church of Christ and who was able to convince me that since I wasn’t properly baptized, that’s why I hadn’t had the power to live a christian life fully. His implication was that I might not even be saved if I hadn’t been dunked under the water. The difference between my Baptist and his CoC Theology should have made me question if other Christians thought the other groups were ‘unsaved’ yet too, but I wasn’t thinking along those paths yet.

The Power of God

He said that there wasn’t anything special or magical about the water or the process, (really?) but that the obedience to Christ’s command to be baptized for the remission of sins was the open door to True Salvation ™ in Christ. For CoC, Baptism in water is the last in a 5-Step Plan of Salvation. It’s what “Seals the deal” with God.

So I got into an over sized bathtub in someone’s down range apartment in Uijongbu, South Korea and they immersed me completely under water while they prayed  prayers over me. Now that I was “Re-saved”, apparently I would be “Imbued with power from on High”, the Living, Indwelling Holy Spirit of God, to live the Christian Life and resist “the World, the Flesh and the Devil’s” influence. I went back to church, read the bible again, listened to preachers who declared God’s love for me and those other poor rotten sinners out there where I was once before.

The Power of Community

But I guess it didn’t take, because in a few months I was living my own life again, making my own choices (some good, some bad) without the benefit of either an inner voice or a even a “booming one” from the clouds to “direct my paths”. In church at this time, I was not taught the Bible past the Sermon Stories on Sunday or the Wednesday Bible Studies. I was not encouraged to study or research the Truth ™ of Christianity’s claims past “the Bible says it… and we believe it”.

I had no real foundation other than the “Power of the Holy Spirit” and the “Indwelling Presence of God” after I had been “Bobbed for Jesus” in that tub. Strangely, what was supposed to be “all I needed” and all sufficient as my inner guide by god’s own “Indwelling Presence” proved in Reality and daily experience to be lacking and not nearly enough to keep me and protect me from faltering back into Sin and the World. For that, I would need “to continue with the saints…” and when I didn’t, then the effects of the Group Think and ‘Community’ wore off pretty quickly.

The societal aspect of being an active, church going, ‘one another-ing’ believer was found to be more powerful and life changing than the god i served by doing so. The question being as I type these memories out now… why didn’t i think of that then? -Locutus (not really)

Why was Church Community “… able to keep that which I have committed unto him… ” when clearly God, Jesus, the Power of the Indwelling Holy Spirit and the Living Word of God, the Bible, not able to do so as they had promised? Now I know, at least regarding my former faith, that they are not able to because…

they are not real.

They don’t truly exist outside of the Echo Chamber of Christian Community. Socially reinforced and ‘washed’, if you will, into our minds and behavior patterns. we believe them, we walk in the Community because “… walking in the spirit…” proves to be a Fantasy when actually tested against Reality.

Fear and Aggression, Pull and Push: Defense Mechanisms for Ignorance

This is what the Christian Apologists fear. Questions or challenges to demonstrate and prove the assertions they make are actually in concordance with Reality. This is why they will use psychological bullying tactics to either buckle your reservations or drive you out of the conversation altogether.

Their aim is to protect “The Collective” otherwise known as The Christian Community from doubts and outright contradictions to what they are portraying as Absolute Truth to the Faithful. And I have found that they will use whatever means necessary and at their disposal to do it, even if they can’t see that they controvert their own theology and christian morals by doing so. In their minds and hearts, they must preserve the Bubble at all costs because secretly and subconsciously at least some of them know…

That’s All There Is

My questions for YOU the Reader today

Have you been Immersed in Jesus or Assimilated into the Collective that is Christianity? Are you ‘Bobbing’ for Jesus or just treading water?

There is a way out. It’s called asking questions no one wants to answer honestly and then not accepting B.S. answers till the Apologists show their true colors. Then you will know exactly how much you’ve been lied to, manipulated, and brain washed into thinking that the World and Reality are your enemies rather than just being where you live and what we all must deal with every day. My encouragement to those readers who may be Christian today… Resistance is NOT Futile. It is the first step on the path to Freedom.

-KIA

 

 

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71 thoughts on “My Journey pt 2: “Total Immersion”

    • ah… there are lots of UPC, Apostolics, BCoChristers, and regular CoChristers out there who would disagree.
      how do you reconcile the vast differences in theology when all of the christian denoms read and study from the same Bible?
      (in my christian history, I was baptist/Calvary Chapel/AoG/Church of Christ/Full Gospel and finally fellowshipped in a Watchman Nee kind of an offshoot… so i know and was comfortable with the ‘One Ice cream, many Flavors’ mentality)

      how do you reconcile the fact that they can all read and study the same message but all come to such different theological differences?

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  1. Your point was illustrated wonderfully during a conversation I have been having with CitizenTom.
    It wasn’t on his blog – no sir, JohnZ and I were banned almost at the same time, as, according to Tom, I have a ”reputation.”
    No kidding? 😉

    Anyway, I asked him to please fully explain in a coherent and logical fashion the demand by Yahweh for the blood sacrifice of his ”son”.
    Ultimately, aside from a fair amount of theological waffle he refused to supply any answer other than – “God required it.”

    And this ( as I am sure you are aware) tells the neutral observer all they need to know about insidious religious indoctrination and why ultimately, it is so important to prevent these people from having access to kids.

    You can read the dialogue if you like, KIA. I am sure it will be familiar and as you are better positioned than I, maybe you might like to ask the question, while he is feeling more garrulous than normal. 😉

    https://altruistico.wordpress.com/2016/01/06/what-is-the-gospel/#comment-7187

    Liked by 1 person

  2. No I understand. I am saying what I feel. I don’t desire converts to follow me. I want authenticity. That’s why I like you. I never want to be what you have become but I respect your authenticity

    Liked by 1 person

    • i really have to finish the part 3 of my journey. it deals with my return to christ at 23 after 4yrs in the army. it carries thru my ministry years in inner city gang missions thru to south korea and mexico missions. i’ll try to get it done this week.

      Liked by 1 person

    • but thanks for the bump and the follow. not sure you will agree with alot here, but i’m always willing to be open. it’s not primarily a deconvert blog or even a blog about religion or christianity, but there may be other posts you enjoy. try my poetry or my reading list ‘on my bookshelf’

      Liked by 1 person

  3. Pingback: My Journey pt 3: More Resons I’m not Christian… anymore | The Recovering Know It All

  4. Hi there….here I am. I could not find part 1 because the link above did not work?

    3 things I want to say here:

    First, I’m not a believer in the baptism = salvation thing, or second baptism of the Spirit. Seems a lot of damage is done there.

    Secondly, I am Trinitarian, and believe God = Jesus = Spirit, so I don’t see God the Father as abusively punishing His Son, as per Arkenaten. I see God, in human form of Christ, taking sin upon Himself. Trinity is unfathomable, but that’s where I am at today.

    Thirdly, I am in a personal, daily, living, practical relationship with God, in Christ. It’s the reality of a walk through life with Him, by the power of the Spirit. Yes, I attend church and fellowship with other Christians, who help and encourage me, but for the most part, it’s a daily conversation between me and God, where I ask and He answers, usually in very practical, tangible ways. It always boils down to being just between you and God in the end.

    Looking forward to reading more of your journey 🙂

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    • HI annj I once thought I had a personal relationship with ‘God’ that involved answered prayer and direct communication. However now post faith I conclude that what seemed at times to be an external voice was really my own internal self. I also note that in regard to prayer answers there was a huge amount of confirmation bias going on plus a treatment of coincidence as being divine intervention.

      It was detailed study of the Bible, Christian history and Christine theology that convinced me that the Bible could not be a divine book and that the history of Christianity looked more human than divine. It was then that I reviewed the experiential side of faith and was staggered to find how what Christians thought was unique was actually common in other faiths, which I knew were not true. I came to see that what humans treat as divine agency is often our own internal thoughts and coincidence.

      I could be wrong, but like Mike (KIA) I spent many years as a Christian and would probably still be Christian if I had not undertaken more detailed study of the faith.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Such situations as I have encountered were so foreign to my own nature that I could only conclude they were from an outside source, God, not my internal self.

        I too have a background of study but have come to different conclusions. I still study and question freely. I’m always in pursuit of truth….

        Liked by 1 person

        • What we’ve seen and experienced can always be interpreted incorrectly by presuppositions and biases. I myself was pentecostal (light) and inclined to ‘see’, hear and experience many things from the Lord. I’ve even wrestled with demon possessed people and felt gods very presence as I led worship or shared the gospel.
          Feelings can be tricky, but they come from within us and depending on your denominational background or church conditioning, can be interpreted as something ‘more than’ just feelings from within.
          34yrs Christian, 25yrs a minister in various roles and responsibilities. Both I and peter understand whereof you speak. We studied, we experienced, then we found out that we were wrong.

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          • I’m 67, been a Christian for 36 years, a missionary for 14 years and pastored a church for 5 years. Both you and Peter are as entitled to your conclusions as I am to mine. We may not agree but we can surely have an intelligent exchange of sorts.

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              • Ah… first nations. In AZ we have several native American peoples and missions activity is predominantly aog or Baptist. Being a woman, I would imagine your denominational bent would be more towards aog/four square than Baptist. (Traditionally, they frown on women ‘pastors’) unless you weren’t actually sent out by a church denomination officially

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              • No, not 4 square either…….I’m more Baptist in bent with some Pentecostal thrown in but I dislike denominational labels.
                The church I currently attend does not approve of women in the pulpit……but it’s otherwise a great biblically sound group of believers and I know I’m in the right place for now 😉

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              • I apologize if im a bit confised. I’m not sure what is so personal about the particular denomination one serves in and why one would need to employ such vagueness

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              • Apart from other questions, you seemed to be asking about qualifications to serve as a pastor (I guess you were after ordination or a sending church?) when I had already provided information on organisations such as the mission I served in. Anyway, I accept your apology with regards to much forwardness 😉 😛

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              • Ordination is an official type of “qualification” to serve as a pastor, usually conferred by a denomination or church organisation and I’m non denominational, as was my husband. He was in the process of applying for ordination though a First Nations organisation before his death. I didn’t apply anywhere for ordination but I had a supporting “sending” mission and the support of my local church board to preach and teach.

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              • So you weren’t ordained then. I don’t include official ordination as a ‘qualification’ but more of an official recognition and endorsement of ministry. Pastoring a church would most likely require that in most instances, unless one is the founding minister or needs arose where there was no one else to fill the role. But more traditional and nt churches and denominations would also frown on officially ordaining women pastors. Unless one were more aog or foursquare. They don’t seem to be so strict on the ‘I suffer not a woman to teach’.
                My own understanding is that pastoring is a function rather than a position or title. In that role, I served many times in varying situations

                Liked by 1 person

              • There are varied and interesting arguments as to the meaning of that scripture and when questioned my answer has always been that I did so initially under the authority of my husband when he was alive and then as I described when he passed away. My spiritual giftings are speaking and teaching along with counseling and outreach ministry.

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              • I have ministered ‘avocationally’ in several churches. From calvary chapel to aog, Reformed (yeah, not my most intelligent choice) to church of Christ

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              • I was equipped for pastoral ministry at Bible School and pastored under the authority of the board of our small church, and my mission, since no local men would take it on after my pastor husband passed away. Our church had been pastored by women before my husband began his work there. It was not unusual.

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