“Wise men lay up Knowledge”

(( for CS this morning. -kia))

In my reader from a Christian brother…

“No apologetics, no arguing, no pleading, no begging, no sales pitch, no coercion…

They were “cut to the heart” because the Holy Spirit moved in them, that is why they knew they should respond.

This has nothing to do with intelligence, reason, or logic and everything to do with just knowing in your heart what must be done.”

What he means by Know is not what it really means to know. I was once like my friend James, Amateur Internet Apologist Extraordinaire.

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.”-Martin Luther― 

I ‘knew’ in my heart that the gospel was True ™ and that my only hope in this life or the next was to surrender, throw myself at the Mercy of the God who stood ready to condemn me to eternal torture for being born broken and unable to mend myself to His standard.

I ‘knew’ in my heart that there must be a god and if there was, it must be the God of the Bible and His Only Begotten Son, Jesus… the only one I’d ever be told about. Ever. It was decided. In my heart of hearts I Knew. 

But I realized recently that what I knew… I didn’t really Know. What I called knowledge and knowing was only feeling, intuition and Conclusion. I had decided to believe, to take on Faith, what one could never prove to be True in any, to use James’ words, rational, logical or intelligent way based on actual evidence. Because once I started to look into the Reality of the Evidence available for what I had staked the last 34yrs of my life and life plan on, Sure Knowledge became Sceptical Doubt and then Knowledgeable Disbelief… in the ‘Greatest Story Every Told’.

No, I’m not atheist. I’m not a Christian anymore either, not that those two are, contrary to some people’s belief, necessarily synonymous. At least for now I think I’m Happily Agnostic… content in the fact that I don’t know, but hopeful to be shown true ‘Evidence that will Demand a Verdict’ and that evidence will not rely on Knowing in my heart, past the intellect, rationality and logic. To paraphrase, “I will know, even as I am known” the way I am known by those who actually Know me and can demonstrate my actual existence and activity.

I don’t ‘want’ Atheism to be true. I don’t want Theism to be true for that matter either. Wish Fulfillment is for Stars and little children. You see… It’s not about what I want or don’t want, what I believe or don’t believe, what I decide to put my Faith in or not. 

For me now, it’s more about what is Truly True, what can be demonstrated to conform to Reality. I’ve given up ‘Knowing in my Heart’ what I can’t Show or Know to be True in Reality. I’m no longer the Know it All I once thought I was… I’m in Recovery.

-kia

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38 thoughts on ““Wise men lay up Knowledge”

  1. I think I never understood. I never appreciated how it must be for one who was a “true believer” to leave that big evangelical tent. I was never in your place , to me it looks so different. I think if I put myself in your position I would have felt some anxiety if not outright fear. I would have woke up at night and not been able to get back to sleep, no way to get the thoughts in my mind to slow and stop. What was I risking vrs what could I live with? How did I want to live my life? What was my goal or did I even have one after I made the big “Plunge”. Would I have my friends, would I have anyone?

    I hope it is working out as you wished. It must be or you would have gone back. I admire you for having the honesty with yourself to face this. I think you are now like the rest of us, realizing it is a growing experience of trying to do the best we can. The best we can do in a world that is not designed as we wish and is sure not perfect for anyone of us. We try to cope in a world where we are not sure of things as much as we really are not sure of others. A world where we do our best when it seems it is all stacked against us, and then realising we have it rather well all things considered. Did I get it right? IF so it is because it is where all of us are. Hope things are good for you. Welcome to the party. Hugs

    Liked by 1 person

    • Thx again for the great and encouraging comment. Yes, there is still some anxiety and even nights up without being able to sleep early. Posts and comments from people like james remind me who I was and where I came from. We have come a long way out of the matrix of where we were. Just trying to do our best to live and love now. Thx again.-kia

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Kia: …surrender, throw myself at the Mercy of the God who stood ready to condemn me to eternal torture for being born broken and unable to mend myself to His standard.

    That IS definitely NOT the gospel.

    If you didn’t know that before, you should at least know it by now.

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  3. Kia: I don’t ‘want’ Atheism to be true.

    Oh look! Your wish has been granted.
    It’s impossible for atheism to be true. It explains absolutely nothing! zilch! nada! zero!

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      • I agree – wishing something true or false doesn’t make it so.

        However, it just so happens, it’s also impossible for atheism to be true whether we wish it so or not – that’s my point.

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              • Faith is not required for a rejection of bad evidence. Equivocation again, buddy. You went to college. You’re a smart person, stop being intentionally dishonest

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              • “intentionally dishonest” is writing or saying things like: I’ve concluded based on the evidence – then turn around and say your conclusion lacks faith.

                How then do you know or believed your conclusion to be correct.

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              • I’m trying to be gentle…

                The evidence cannot tell you if it’s true or false.
                You/an examiner have to make that determination.
                So where you and I can look at the exact same evidence, we can come away with different conclusions.

                Based on your reasoning – you conclude that the evidence is lacking and therefore you cannot or won’t believe.

                Whereas, I look on the same evidence and find it sufficient and make the opposite conclusion.

                What makes my conclusion faith based and yours not. – That’s what you’re saying.
                You’re wrong.
                It takes faith to believe that your conclusions are the correct ones (regardless of how much they’re supported or unsupported by the evidence)

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              • I think you’re now trying to conflate the two meanings of faith and trust. You know religious faith is not just trust in evidence. You are intentionally being dishonest, gently or not.
                Again, it takes no faith at all to disbelieve a claim based on bad evidence. You are wrong

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              • Are you trying to tell me there’s a difference between faith and trust Kia.

                Seriously, I’d love to be educated here. I can at least leave knowing I’ve learnt something.

                Kia, a person has to have faith in their conclusions. There’s just no getting around it.
                Peter makes himself out to be a reasonable guy – and I admit he’s reasonable about half the time, so perhaps he can explain to you why we all live by reason & faith.
                And your disbelief of the evidence is based upon your faith that your conclusions are correct.
                There’s no shame in what I’ve said.

                This doesn’t hold true for just ‘religious’ evidence. This is exercised in a court of law daily… and in our own lives moment by moment.
                Stop being so religious.

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              • No need for games.
                This is the dictionary definition of faith and trust.

                Faith -complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

                Trust – firm belief in the reliability, truth, or ability of someone or something.

                I read the article.
                His examples are the same – so using trust when it’s daytime and faith because it’s nighttime is cray cray.

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              • I partly agree with you here – you’ve left off the other half.

                You’ve left off the other half.
                Everyone uses reason and faith to support their beliefs (not just religious beliefs).

                The atheist can rephrase it this way – they use reason and faith to support their ‘lack of belief’ [whatever makes it more palatable to them].

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              • No. I’m not playing word games. You are trying to paint me into a corner of a false misrepresentation and I’m attempting to correct you

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              • It seems you don’t want to be corrected, and would rather believe that it take faith to reject a belief. That my friend is delusional.

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              • I can be corrected.

                To reject a belief, you must have reasons for doing so.
                You must also believe that your reasons for rejecting those beliefs are sound and/or correct.
                You can only do so by faith/trust.

                faith is trusting something (your reasons) that you cannot explicitly prove”

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  4. Lately CS has been writing such utter rubbish. He makes so many definitive statements without offering any real evidence to support them. He is clearly preaching to the choir because the rubbish he writes would be totally counterproductive on non believers.

    Liked by 1 person

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