My Journey pt 7: So Much More Without Him than I was With Him

Without Him I am Nothing?

Self Esteem vs Christ Esteem

I used to think this was the most profound statement of faith that described the life of a Disciple of Jesus. I now see it for the lie that it is.

While promising worth and value ‘In Christ’, it violently negates any value or worth or ‘personhood’ outside of Him. At once it seeks to give meaning and purpose to people, mostly young people like I was at fifteen years old and then again at twenty two,  who naturally are struggling for meaning and purpose in their lives. The reverse image of this supposedly affirming picture is assertion that meaning and purpose ONLY come from Identity In Christ.  Of course I know this now to be false and damaging to young minds at the exact point where they should be being encouraged to become who they want to be, learn what interests them, and grow into the full stature of adulthood.

Are people just “Joe Dirt”?

Instead they, and by they I mean I and many others like me, are told not only that they are worthless and valueless pieces of dirt ( ‘adama’ clay is it?) that can only be and do and have breath and meaning by grovelling at the feet of a ‘loving father’ who may have only ‘created them for destruction’ but now offers Identity only in Himself… but also that even when they come to receive the marvelous gift of ‘Christ in you, the hope of Glory’ they STILL have no value, worth, meaning or purpose outside of Him. Their lives, if they do them rightly as a Disciple of Jesus, will continue to be grovelling and begging and kneeling in defeated submission the feet of their ‘loving father’.

Is there no Escape even After Deconversion?

And don’t you ever think of leaving. It’s not that you’ll go back to being that piece of dirt… you still ARE that piece of dirt. It’s that NOW you’ll have God to fight and His ally, your own mind telling you are even lower than whale scum without Christ to provide your value. And His people, still afraid of their own value without Christ, will tell you you need LESS self esteem, not more… MORE Christ esteem, not less. They’ll tell you that you need to be ‘Childlike’ forever to be fully Human and Adult.

Paradise is a Prison Planet

The truth is that you’ve been lied to and held in bondage to a mental, emotional and spiritual childhood that has Stopped, Stunted and in some cases Regressed your growth and value as a individual person and adult human… unless you’ve accommodated your Christianity to allow for your Self Esteem, then you aren’t being honest with the full implications of your ‘Nothingness’ without Christ.

The real story of “Nothing Without Christ” is that even after you accept Christ, you are STILL Nothing even IN Christ. Jesus is ALL. You are Nothing. Is this reality? Is this healthy? Is this truth?  No. No it is not. The problem with Christianity’s “Nothing without Christ” is that it is Self Immolation and Self Destruction.

But there is Escape… you can still be Free. Think for yourself. Ask questions. Challenge the ‘answers’. You DO have value, worth, meaning and purpose in yourself. It’s been stolen from you. Take it back. It’s not easy and it is painful, but it can be done. Commit to Recovery. Commit to YOU today.

-KIA

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135 thoughts on “My Journey pt 7: So Much More Without Him than I was With Him

  1. Christianity teaches a most benevolent and merciful doctrine.

    Through prayer, service and sacrament the mind becomes enlightened to the simple fact that we are flesh and thus hopelessly subject to our pride and our voracious appetites.

    The value that we have in Christ is that he makes us the coin of his realm.

    And that coin is truly priceless.

    Liked by 1 person

          • KIA,

            The doctrines taught by Jesus allow a person to achieve the fullness of their human nature.

            That means that authentic Christianity (not the craziness you were involved in for decades) is inclusive.

            And it just so happens that the human being under the influence of God’s grace and mercy becomes a divine creature.

            Liked by 1 person

              • carmen, it is of course the RCC that he belongs to. you know… the one filled with love for little boys and protector of pedophile priests. and let’s not forget the Inquisition and the Crusades… and the hunting down and killing the Reformers. such a gentle and kind faith.

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              • KIA,

                None were more appreciative than your average Catholic when the wolves in sheep’s clothing (the homosexual men) were outed for child molestation.

                Any religion must institute a process to protects its teachings and doctrine.

                Did you know that Saint Francis of Assisi and Saint Ignatius of Loyola were subjected to inquisition?

                The Spanish Inquisition, the one you are probably referring to, also had its purpose.

                And the Crusades were instituted to re-acquire lands that for centuries had been Christian, before being conquered by the Islamic Jihad.

                So your attempt to taint the Catholic Church is just the usual leftist-atheist ignorance on display.

                Liked by 1 person

              • KIA didn’t attempt to taint the Catholic Church. It did it all by itself by protecting pedophiles and even institutionalizing the abuse of boys and girls. In fact, its hands are still dirty as it is spending millions of dollars lobbying in an effort to block a bill that would make it easier for child sex abuse victims to seek justice.
                You support this organization. Disgusting.

                Liked by 1 person

              • The Catholic Church does not condone pedophilia nor does it institutionalize it.

                It is always absolutely stunning when such unrepentant evil is outed within the Church.

                That the Church would stop an unjust bill that allows open season on men is not surprising.

                It is also not surprising that you would condone such a travesty.

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              • Carmen is right. Such a disgusting bunch of pervert pedophiles. And the priests, archbishops or cardinals who are not covered it up and subverted justice. Even ratzinger

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              • The church ™ shuffled these perverts around church to church to hide them from law enforcement. Why do you think ratzinger took an early retirement?

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              • He was running scared. He knew about the priest shuffling. He orchestrated it and the authorities were coming for him in turn it would have embarrassed the church. He stepped aside as damage control.

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              • so much for making one a ‘divine creature’. no wait, these are all examples reminiscent of what god does himself in the OT. how ‘divine’ is man without the biblical god, how human and evil is the god of the OT and it shows so well in His followers thru the centuries

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              • “Christianity provides the Way for the human being to go all they way to his full potential”
                I’ll fix that for you, SoM.
                Hard work, determination, and critical thinking provides the way for the human being to go all the way to their full potential. You’re welcome.

                Liked by 1 person

              • Sorry, Carmen.

                But hard work, determination and critical thinking only work for the common man in a Christianized civilization.

                You are professing a Christian value simply never worked ever in the history of mankind.

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              • Nan,

                And because you say it, it must be true.

                That is the basis for all atheist arguments regardless of any evidence or proof to the contrary.

                What I say is true is because the facts say so. I’m just repeating the facts.

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              • KIA,

                A disbelief in God is a belief.

                It’s a belief that everything just happened all by itself.

                The atheist needs to be able to explain how everything just happened all by itself or they are just flapping their gums.

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              • You are mistaken. Not believing is not the same as asserting there is no God. No matter how hard you try to shift the burden, it still tests on the shoulders of he who makes the positive claim

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              • KIA,

                Any way you hallucinate it, if there is no Creator, than everything just happened all by itself.

                If you believe that there is no God, than that means you believe everything just happened all by itself.

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              • I keep telling you. I’m not atheist. Just not Christian anymore. But even if I were, atheism does not say as you assert, that there is no God. You are purposefully misstating this.
                As for atheism, it also is not a worldview or a philosophy or an explanation of the origins. It answers one question, do you believe in God or gods and it’s answer is no. Atheism does not believe. It does not assert that there is no god

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              • Carmen,

                Authentic Christianity teaches the human being how achieve the fullness of his human nature.

                Christianity is therefore inclusive because its purpose is to tend to the heart, mind, body and soul of every human being.

                So the person who wishes to fulfill himself needs to search and test until he finds the Way.

                Liked by 1 person

              • The fullness of his human nature? What the heck does that even mean? I’m sure you mean ‘the fullness of his human nature as a serf/grovelling slave’

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              • KIA,

                You asking, “What does that even mean, “means you are ignorant and uneducated.

                You need to get a brain of your own, teach it how to reason and then go get it educated.

                Everything I write about here, I’ve studied at the university level.

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              • You said you studied these things at university level. I was asking if you have degrees and in what. If you don’t that’s fine with me. Just didn’t want you to give a false impression of your collegiate expertise in an attempt to assert expertise you don’t have

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          • KIA,

            I have a Bachelor of Science Degree in electrical engineering and am finishing a 2-year program in biotechnology.

            I have studied religion, philosophy and political science at the graduate level at Catholic, Protestant and secular universities.

            Liked by 1 person

    • @SOM

      Christianity teaches a most benevolent and merciful doctrine.

      Providing you follow to the letter. Otherwise you get sent to Hell. A place created and managed by the supposed dispenser of this benevolence., one Jesus of Nazareth.

      This sounds like a deal concocted by a psychopath and believed and accepted by those suffering from a mental disorder.

      Liked by 1 person

        • KIA,

          Yes, I have read the Bible. I read it every day.

          If you read the Bible even a little, you would understand that what I say is true.

          I recommend that you lose all the craziness you tried to peddle to all those unsuspecting victims for all those decades, and just sit down and take a fresh look.

          Liked by 1 person

            • KIA,

              Just because you held a book in your hand and looked at the words go by doesn’t mean you read it.

              Reading presupposes some sort of comprehension.

              Hallucinating your own meaning is different than comprehension.

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        • This is rich –
          “I’d be an atheist too, if what Christianity was what you hallucinate it to be.”, says the person who believes in the supernatural. You really need to proofread carefully, SoM.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Carmen,

            It is much more reasonable to believe in the supernatural than be an atheist and believe that everything just happened all by itself.

            Please, give one shred of evidence that everything just happened all by itself.

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            • I’ll say what Cs says I defense of the biblal God. The universe is evidence that it came from nothing. What we differ on is the someone who called it into being and where he/she/it came from. Your burden of proof my friend som. Your burden. “I don’t know” is preferable to the undetectable, and invisible

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          • KIA,

            The Communion of Saints is a core Christian belief stated in the Apostle’s Creed.

            But that is religious faith which is different than reasoning out the existence of the Creator.

            The atheist is left standing there with his panties down around his ankles because without the Creator, everything just happened all by itself.

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            • do you know alot about people with their panties around their ankles, som?
              but go ahead, prove that the biblical god actually did this act of creation you talk about?

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              • KIA,

                I have posted scientific proofs of the existence of God until I’m blue in the face.

                Because atheists have 100% faith that everything happened all by itself, evidence and proof are useless.

                You can visit my blog and read (not hallucinate) all about it.

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        • @SOM.

          MY version of Christianity?
          The altar of the church you bow at the knee to INVENTED Christianity including and all its disgusting foundational doctrine.
          And who the f*** is so insane they would adhere to the word of a celibate institution that has traditionally hidden pedophiles?
          Well, an arsehole like you for one.

          What you think you know about religion and the historicity of its main characters is nothing but regurgitated indoctrination.
          You demonstrate time and time again that you are simply nothing but an ignorant acolyte with a minor god complex.

          And you are an atheist, Dickhead, you simply believe in one god more than I do.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Actually, I don’t think the rcc invented Christianity. They stole the brand rights from many other versions, Gnostic included, in the fourth century then proceeded to wipe out all traces of them from history so they could claim to be the original. They are most likely one of the false teachers that “went out from us because they were not of us” that Paul wrote about. How’s that SOM for coming full circle?

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    • @SoM
      Yes, we all noticed how ”enlightened” Christians become while following your recent lovers’-spat with Colorstorm.
      An indoctrinated half-wit arguing over a flat earth with an even more indoctrinated quarter-wit.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Never thought of it before, but if it’s all God’s and all we have and earn are by his provision, power and strength, the tithe would more likely be 90% and he’d tip us the ten

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        • Mak the argument is that God does not need the money, rather it is more a test of the love, devotion and obedience of the faithful.

          I supported a lot of Christian organisations in my time and concluded their marketing efforts to elicit funds from the faithful (gullible) was just the same as that used by secular charities. Now if there was an all powerful God behind an organisation it would be a real testimony if they did no marketing or soliciting funds and rather relied on the ‘Holy Spirit’ to prompt the faithful to support the ministry.

          The constant asking for funds (either directly or implied) is just further proof that it is all human.

          The thing is that Christians like to say that their ways are not the ways of the world, and I suspect many genuinely think this though all the time they are acting just like the secular world they condemn. Look at the catalogue of any Christian book shop and it is filled with self help improvement books (hidden under the guise of some spiritual sounding title).

          Liked by 1 person

          • “The constant asking for funds (either directly or implied) is just further proof that it is all human.”

            quite right. and well said brother.

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          • Peter, you just hit on one of the reasons (among many) we decided that we could no longer ‘do’ church. Money. We were generous givers for over 40 years. However, with decreasing members to fill the coffers, it became increasingly clear that we were supporting the building, as opposed to doing Outreach. In our minds, NOT charity. Charity, to me, is giving to less fortunates. That’s the thing the most people can’t seem to grasp – that church is a BUSINESS. I have also heard it said that it’s a social club, which is also true. It took me a long time to realize it, though.
            Reading over that, I know that it sounds negative. I don’t like to do that, as I realize that churches STILL do quite a bit of good. In fact, right now the church we used to attend is raising funds to get a Syrian Refuge family here — something we definitely support – and will donate to – accordingly. But in a rural area like this, people just can’t keep doing it . Just one more item on “Doesn’t make sense” list.

            Liked by 1 person

            • Carmen I was a committee member on a secular business association for a few years. The primary focus of the committee ended up being how to raise sufficient funds to keep the organisation running. Focussing on providing services to the members became secondary to keeping the organisation running.

              It reminded me of many church organisations where the focus ends up on raising sufficient funds to keep the doors open.

              Liked by 1 person

            • Mueller seems the exception not the rule. I received this week an email from Christianity Today advertising their ‘Year-End Giving Success Kit’. It included:
              – congregational readings, small group lessons, sermon illustrations and more;
              – 10 amazing stories of generosity to use in your year end sermons;
              – end of year essentials for your church services, sermons, and groups.

              No mention of prayer or reliance on the Holy Spirit.

              I often receive appeals from Christian organisations asking for donations to help fill their ‘faith’ gaps.

              Seems many church organisations operate the same way as secular charities when it comes to raising money.

              Liked by 1 person

              • George Mueller was not a stoic or silent in asking for help from others. He did let his needs be known and his needs were known by others. The myth that he never asked or let his needs be known is just that… a myth

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              • Yes, that is very true. You had stated that you knew of none who relied on the Spirit, but there are those who do…..other than Mueller, who is a prime example.

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  2. Hi all,
    I went to bed last night but see some comments have come in; KIA, you and Nan tackled many of my queries with SoM. Here’s one perplexing thought I have about your ‘truths’ though, SoM.
    You seem to be stuck on this idea that ‘everything happened all by itself’ which is nonsense. The word is ‘evolution’, SoM – something a scientist should be well-versed in. Then you seem to have no qualms in sticking to the ‘goddidit’ theory. How did that happen, SoM? Did (your) god BLINK?? Wave a wand? Say, ‘Shazzam!’ And what was (your) god doing (and where was it?) before it blinked, waved, commanded? Isn’t that something from nothing? I have to shake my head and think, “A tall tale believed by a grown man.”
    It mystifies me. That, along with the fact that there are still Catholics left with their arses in pews.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Carmen,

      Evolution is the transfer and change of genetic information from one generation of living organism to the next, over time.

      Evolution has nothing to do with creation because the universe was here billions and billions of years before life developed.

      So the atheist must still be able to explain how everything just happened all by itself.

      How life began is yet another one of those silly questions that demonstrates the ridiculous nature of atheism as a coherent belief.

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      • So the atheist must still be able to explain how everything just happened all by itself.

        No, the atheist does not have to explain anything.

        Personally, I’ve never been able to figure out why “the beginning” is such a discussion point. The universe exists. We exist. Why does it matter in the big scheme of things? IOW, enjoy your life while you’re here on this planet, in this universe. Someday you’ll be gone. If if makes you feel better to believe you’ll end up in some “heavenly realm,” go for it. But be aware … the chances that you’ll ever have the opportunity to find out for sure are nil because, in realty, DEATH is the end of all those fantasies..

        Liked by 1 person

        • but nan… what if you’re wrong? what if Zeus really exists and you pissed him off so much by your unbelief in Zeus that when you die He uses you for Eternal Lightning Bolt target practice? wouldn’t it be a safer bet believing in Zeus that risking the eternal lightning bolt target practice? come on… sing with me “Fairest lord Zeus..”

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        • or maybe Zeus is just Set’s little ‘tricky dicky’ to keep you from worshiping the True God ™ Horus… maybe HE’s the one we should place our ‘wagers’ on? after all, He came WAY before the God of the Bible…” yeah, that’s the ticket” (hat tip to john lovett

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  3. I’m going to reply at the bottom of the thread, to avoid the skinny text.

    SoM – you said (above), “It is also not a surprise that you would condone such a travesty” in reply to my outrage about Catholic priests who were ‘married’ to (your) god, but using children for sexual gratification. I’m not sure what you mean here, as I certainly don’t condone it; I’m completely repulsed by it – that’s what the Catholic church did for centuries and IS continuing to do by spending millions of dollars in an effort to block victims’ claims about their abuse.

    Where’s your confusion coming in? And why the HELL are you still supporting a completely corrupt institution?? In my books, that makes you a co-conspirator.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Carmen,

      Catholicism is a religious faith.

      That means I am free not to support any corruption that crops up in the corporate church.

      Lots of Catholics feel that way and so, are very careful about where their money goes.

      Liked by 1 person

        • It means I don’t blame God for the evil that men do, like you.

          My faith is my own. I own it.

          If some jerkwater priest goes off the rails that’s his business until he breaks the law.

          Like

          • ‘jerkwater priest’? like the ones who hid the pedophiles? like the bishops, archbishops and cardinals all around the globe? those jerkwater priests? this was not some one off. it was systematic and reached the very highest levels of the church. even to ratzinger

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          • so the pop can also be ‘jerkwater’? how do you trust anything the ‘magesterium’ teaches if it’s filled with these ‘jerkwater’ priests?

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      • My point – which was probably obvious to everyone on the thread but you – is that your money and every other Catholics goes to supporting a corrupt institution. Period.

        Liked by 1 person

        • carmen, i think SOM is an example of what i’ve seen alot in the US (my mom included). Catholics who see themselves as ‘other’ catholics not really connected or beholden to the ills and evil of the RCC yet still connected to all the ‘good and majestic’ parts. it’s all very nonsensical if you realize what the RCC is supposed to be, namely God’s kingdom on earth with the Pope speaking infallibly ex cathedra as god’s Voice, or in this case.. NOT speaking up at all but covering, hiding and shuffling pedophile priests around the globe.

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          • Yes, I agree KIA. Here’s what happened in these parts when the shit hit the fan, and individual dioceses got sued: The Catholic Church wiped their hands of them. Never mind the fact that it was THEIR institutional policies that kept the infection spreading, never mind the fact that a portion of their dollars were sent to the ‘top’. . . just washed their hands and said, “You’re on your own”. Of course, in a rural area like this the doors were shut. Which is not a bad thing, mind you. Sickening for them not to have taken responsibility for their own shit.

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            • who was it said in antiquity looking out over the vast wealth of the catholic church saying “we can no longer say ‘silver and gold have i none’ but was replied to by another person “neither can we say ‘such as i have, give i unto thee'”

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              • I have friends who’ve been to the Vatican. Over-the-top riches. I’ve also spoken to people who’ve worked at rectories. .. they eat the very best of food, many live with luxurious surroundings/furnishings, and enjoy the very best wines. I suppose there has to be a trade-off for the denial of sexual pleasure, but some of those scumbags found a way to alleviate even that.

                Sickening abuse of power, which you support by your endorsement, SoM.

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              • to be honest, the vast majority of regular priests and workers are not rich and they embrace their vows of poverty enthusiastically. it’s when you get into the ‘management’ side of ministry that it becomes more and more an issue the higher you go

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              • The principle reason the Catholic Church introduced celibacy for priests was to stop priests passing on lucrative church income streams to their heirs. This was especially the case where the Church owned land and was the local feudal overlord.

                Liked by 1 person

              • exactly peter. that and the incestuousness and lacivious activities of priests back then in the ‘dark ages’ of Church rule in europe. celebacy can’t be supported from the nt and it was only brought in about a thousand years after the christianity began, when RCC had full and total control of The Faith and Europe. you might say that the RCC is why clebacy became necessary 🙂

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    • For example…

      Because I am active in the local church parish I asked for access to the parish Wi-Fi so I could use the Web to get to the information I needed: songs, bulletins, prayers, daily and weekly Mass Bible readings.

      The priest had just given a homily on the importance of love and family in the Christian community and his reply was, “No because if we give you access to the Wi-Fi, we’ll have to give everyone access to the Wi-Fi.

      My reply was, “What’s wrong with that? And besides I am the only one in the entire parish who walks around with an iPad doing what I do.”

      Bogarting the bandwidth is like refusing to provide parishioners water for the toilets.

      Since then, I’ve only donated $5 dollars; my share of the hosts, electricity and air conditioning dividing by everyone else in the parish.

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      • “The priest had just given a homily on the importance of love and family in the Christian community” – ummm, how can he do that convincingly when he’s not allowed to have a family of his own, SoM?? He’s married to a figment of his imagination. . .

        Liked by 1 person

      • “My reply was, “What’s wrong with that? ”
        ———
        good on you,mate. screw that priest… oh well. maybe not
        ———
        “Since then, I’ve only donated $5 dollars;”
        ———
        a little petty, don’t you think? robbing God of his ‘tithe’ and just bthrowing him a Tip because of som Dickish priest? not good… not good at all. you do know that he is God’s Rep on earth right? in other words… God told you no, not that priest. and you threw it back in God’s face. How do you feel about that, SOM?

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            • insults are a defense mechanism for pushing people away so they stop telling him things he doesn’t want to hear.
              SOM, if you don’t want to hear, you could click out of the blog and stop rersponding. i hope you don’t. it’s been very entertaining. but please minimize the personal insults. it’s not very bright or intelligent, and you are very bright and intelligent.

              Like

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