Turn about is Fair Play: Brother Dax Responds

((Reposting 4/28/17 for perspective on our recent exchanges -kia))

The Interviewer Responds…

No… not THAT Christian…

Hi there all you wonderful people. My earlier POST on this brother’s BLOG answering questions for me a Christian Deconvert went so well and was such a success for civil and polite exchange that we decided it would be nice to do another. This time I will ask the questions and Dax of “The Infected Saint” will do the answering.

I’ve taken it easy on him, as you can see, and only included three questions to his six for me, but I have to admit they are a bit heavy, “Bang for the Buck” if you will.

Here they are, so why not tell me how he did in the comments below.

While you’re at it, if you are a believer in Jesus or a Christian of any stripe, why not take a crack at the questions yourself? I’m open to discussion and exchange, not always to arguments or debates, as one sided preaching monologues don’t do much for two way communication.  Especially as I have probably heard, read or even repeated whatever you’re thinking of anyway in my 34 yrs as a Christian or the 25 yrs I spent in avocational ministry.

Honestly, I’m more interested in discussion and exchange that proselytizing these days, if you get my drift. So open up those minds and apply fingers to keyboards and show me what you got.  Thx.   -Kia
—————-

(((( Before we get to the questions and answers, I wanted to admit that while I have not changed his Words or Wording, I have taken the liberty in editing the Formatting of his answers for clarity, understanding and careful consideration.  It has not been my intention with this ‘Reformatting’ to skew or misrepresent his answers in any way, but only to make them easier to understand, digest and consider. I apologize in advance for any offence this may cause. -KIA

And Brother Dax has a word of Disclaimer also that I wanted to pass on in fairness and transparency:)))

“Disclaimer: I write these answers from my personal experience and knowledge. I purposely leave out scripture references because I am not trying to build a case here. I understand many who read this do not give any credence to the bible as authoritative anyway. I do not write this apologetically as much as is humanly possible for me at least. I don’t have intentions of defending God or proselytizing anyone with this. I would like to do that, honestly, in other discussions but below I am trying to answer as much as I can in a vacuum. “

((( And now… On with the Show )))

Hey there brother Dax

I got my questions together. I’m taking it easy on you 😉 only 3.

1) how did you become a Christian? (Please briefly tell your conversion story.)

“I became a Christian at 17 years of age, May 11, 1992. I had grown up in the Mormon faith. I began to question my beliefs around 17 and my investigations of reading the bible and Book of Mormon revealed to me the discrepancies. My questions came when I began to notice the Book of Mormon as a poor paraphrase of the King James with strange additions. Further investigation showed the major discrepancies in the book. The Mormon faith looked like the Christian Faith with a new hairdo. It was the Bible plus some man-pleasing frills and thrills. I began to study the Bible and in reading Romans 10 I was overwhelmed with my own smallness in the universe and in the sight of God. I didn’t feel belittled by God; I felt unworthy in comparison to His greatness. In that moment I cried out to God and asked Him to reveal Himself to me.

He did. I was overwhelmed by His grace and love. I have never felt or known such peace as I did in that moment. I knew there was a God and I wasn’t him. I knew that I was unworthy of His love but that He loved me anyway. I was unworthy because I was selfish and proud. I didn’t obey my parents. I lied some. I cheated some. I didn’t live righteously. In my moments of greatest shame over this, I found the courage to face it because of His presence. It was the most powerful thing I have ever experienced to this day. I wept all night and thanked God.

My mind and heart were at peace like I have never known before. It was truly life altering. An amazing experience of divine encounter. It became my passion and my calling.”

2)  would you say that it was evidence, historical/archaeological, that first convinced you that Christianity was true or did you just believe?

“I did not have any “evidence” when I first had faith in God. I did begin to study these things after though.

My focus was in the ancient languages, which I majored in at College. I studied intensely Greek and Hebrew. While textual variants existed I was amazed at how theologically intact and unified the scriptures were from the sources we have. The Dead Sea Scrolls were a great find for confirming the consistency of the OT as well. I have read archaeological findings that support historical places mentioned in the Bible. I have been to Israel and seen the ancient cities that confirmed for me some of the descriptions found in the scriptures.

At the end of the day I still willfully admit I lean on faith as my rock. If Noah’s Ark ruins were found on a mountain in Turkey, I don’t think I would believe more strongly than I do right now.”

3) what, if anything, would convince you that the bible and or Christianity was false? (I’m not asking for a litany of reasons that you believe them to be true, but what would convince you that they are not true)

  • “You would have to take away my personal experience in God’s revealing himself to me. You would have to take my wife away whom I married before our first date as God led me to her (long but cool story).
  • You would have to show me proof that Jesus didn’t live or that he didn’t die and resurrect. You would have to show me that the scriptures were false. I am well versed in the Pseudepigrapha. I know there are other gospels and writings out there. But I know that the Canon has been shown to be consistent and well supported.
  • It would take a lot for me not to believe. My faith centers around Christ. You would need to start there.”

Well brother, thx again for the opportunity to exchange ideas.


I’m looking forward to everyone else’s answers also. And if you have comments, questions or input for Dax on his answers, please feel free to Comment and Discuss below. I’m sure both Dax and I would love to hear from you.

-Kia

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29 thoughts on “Turn about is Fair Play: Brother Dax Responds

  1. One ‘personal experience’ of God is a difficult matter to discuss. I really thought I had a ‘personal relationship’ with God. Indeed I recalled moments when I thought ‘God’ spoke to me directly.

    However looking back I came to see how easy it is to confuse our own inner voice with that of an external supernatural entity. This especially applies when we have confirmation bias working. thus when it seems prescient or uncanny it is always ‘God’ when not we conclude it is our own inner voice.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I was pentacostal/charismatic ‘light’ as a Christian. I remember many precious times of personal and corporate prayer and worship where God spoke so powerfully… palpabally like you could cut the tension with a knife.. ‘hear’ his voice so clearly. It’s so easy to be group led and interpret the emotional ism as God’s very presence.
      But of course… it was not gods presence as my non charismatic brothers would probably call it demonic or just psychological master bastion.
      Again, Christians can’t even agree amongst themselves, why would we take them seriously regarding ‘knowledge’ or ‘experience’ of God’s presence?

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      • Christians don’t agree often. I will give you that. Neither do scientists but they do believe an ideal fact exists regardless.I guess the goofiness of the followers of God do not necessarily mean he does not exist

        Liked by 1 person

        • It’s not the goofiness I was referring to, it’s that different brands of Christian define the goofiness of ‘those christians’ differently, just like you just did, and they back their particular interpretations of the other brands goofiness by their own experience or study of how God or Jesus ‘really is’.
          Can you see what I’m trying to say?

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        • You ate right, doesn’t prove he doesn’t exist. Probably never will be able to do that as much as Christians, jews, Muslims and other kinds of theists can’t “prove” that God does. At the foundation, it does rest on faith ultimately. Can you see that?

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        • Christian denominations disagree with each other in similar ways and sometimes with as sharp differences as different theists disagree with each other

          Like

        • And I would submit… for many of the same reasons. The first of which is ‘their experience’ of God is different and rooted in THEIR books as well as their particular interpretations ‘filtered’ thru their traditional framework of Truth ™, just like Christians have their framework/filter to evaluate evidence and see how it ‘fits’ with what they already have accepted and believe ‘by faith’, just as you, Peter and I did. Can you see that brother dax?

          Like

        • By the way, why hide your identity with “Someone”? Have you heard of IP addresses? “Someone”‘s is the exact same as yours brother dax.
          Did you think I wouldn’t be able to tell? What was the point?

          Like

  2. As Peter and you say, how can we disagree with what goes on in someone’s head age 17? I was pretty young and naive at 17, and I’ve certainly changed opinions (not about religion) in the subsequent years.

    Seems to me, which is what a lot of people say, that your friend is driven by (blind) faith, and logic/reason/evidence have no impact. He’s already chosen the evidence to support his faith.

    Finally, that old chestnut again. The non-Christian has to prove the non-existence of Jesus and the supposed resurrection. Clever people than I have spent years proving errors in scripture, archaeological claims, and the actual life of Jesus (if he existed). Yet, it cuts no ice because faith doesn’t want to listen. That’s the issue.

    Liked by 2 people

    • I agree. Faith got him, and us, in and then we used all resources and confirmation bias to keep us securely buckled in. I noticed the ‘prove it didn’t happen’ reverse burden too.
      Hopefully, if we get some more exchanges, I may be able to individually address his answers in separate posts. Good catch there.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Very hard to prove God doesn’t exist. My focus instead is on whether or not the Bible is reliable. That was what broke my faith when I concluded that the Bible could not be reliable.

        For yours I was convinced that the prophecies of Jesus provided absolute proof that the Bible was inspired. It never occurred to me as a person of faith to consider the possibility that the Gospel stories might have been fabricated in a manner to make them appear to be fulfilling prophecy.

        Likewise the Daniel prophecies seemed so powerful – but I now know that there were in the main written around 163 BC once again a possibility I never considered as a person of faith.

        When I was a person of faith I assumed the Apologists were people of integrity who were seeking truth, now I see them as people seeking to support a preconceived outcome and as such not honest enquirers.

        The areas of the Bible I really struggled with as a person of faith was the Adam and Eve story, the Flood story and the Tower of Babel story as my understanding of science said those stories could not be literally true. I never really fully dealt with that one rather I sort of saw them as pious myths.

        Liked by 1 person

        • As most Christians know, you cannot definitively prove the existence of an omni present, immaterial being which is beyond what science has the ability to measure. At least honest Christians admit this. Similarly for different reasons, you cannot definitively prove the negative either, and it is poor apologetics to seek to ‘prove’ your positive assertions simply by attempting to force those who don’t believe to prove the negative, that God doesn’t exist… and then claim victory by default when they cannot. It’s not very honest, but it seems to be a common theme that alot of Internet apologists like james and Wally and David have adopted as their own.

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    • I anticipated this very reaction. I will go down with this ship per se. I think Christians can be mean and foolish. I think the church can get it wrong. I am often embarrassed of the title. Yet, my experiences and study of the ancient languages bolsters my faith. I realize you will call it blind faith. I was asked the questions what would it cause me to no longer believe. I answered it. I don’t think I was making a fallacious argument. I was answering the question posed to me. That is what would unravel my faith.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Oh dear, I think dax has gone silent on us again. Not a good sign for one who said they encouraged open and civil dialog. I do hope he responds again so I can repeat my offer to break these his answers into several posts and discuss them individually.

      Like

  3. This is how brother dax chose to couch his reblog of my previous post on his blog this morning… I ask everyone, is this a fair assertion of my behaviour to him and is his assessment of my motives a fair assessment given my post, and my comments on his answers?

    “KIA and I have been in a dialogue over the last several months about the faith. I am firmly planted in the faith and he has left the faith. I interviewed him and to keep it fair, he has now interviewed me. While he only gave me three questions I do see them as set up questions for he and his entourage to “catch” me in what they will deem fallacious arguments. Nevertheless, I answered them honestly. I am not using these answers to try and prove my faith. There are times when I will defend and argue the faith. Maybe through discussion from here I will do that. BUT, my answers to his questions were not that. They were my honest reflections.”

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    • I am in no one’s entourage 😦 nor am I interested in ‘catching’ anyone. That is a rather unfair comment, not just for your entourage (sic) but for you too.

      FWIW, I’m usually more interested reading in dog posts, vegan posts and haikus … Religion. ’Twill be the death of us 😦

      Liked by 1 person

    • I think I should repost the joke about ‘Why God created Cats’:

      “And God Created DOG to LOVE Man and CAT teach to him HUMILITY”

      It is reported that the following edition of the Book of Genesis was discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
      And Adam said, “Lord, when I was in the garden, you walked with me everyday. Now I do not see you anymore. I am lonesome here and it is difficult for me to remember how much you love me.”

      And God said, “No problem! I will create a companion for you that will be with you forever and who will be a reflection of my love for you, so that you will know I love you, even when you cannot see me.
      Regardless of how selfish and childish and unlovable you may be, this new companion will accept you as you are and will love you as I do, in spite of yourself.”

      And God created a new animal to be a companion for Adam. And it was a good animal. And God was pleased.

      And the new animal was pleased to be with Adam and he wagged his tail. And Adam said, “But Lord, I have already named all the animals in the Kingdom and all the good names are taken and I cannot think of a name for this new animal.”

      And God said, “No problem! Because I have created this new animal to be a reflection of my love for you, his name will be a reflection of my own name, and you will call him DOG.”

      And Dog lived with Adam and was a companion to him and loved him. And Adam was comforted. And God was pleased. And Dog was content and wagged his tail.

      After a while, it came to pass that Adam’s guardian angel came to the Lord and said, “Lord, Adam has become filled with pride. He struts and preens like a peacock and he believes he is worthy of adoration. Dog has indeed taught him that he is loved, but no one has taught him humility.”

      And the Lord said, “No problem! I will create for him a companion who will be with him forever and who will see him as he is. The companion will remind him of his limitations, so he will know that he is not worthy of adoration.”

      And God created CAT to be a companion to Adam. And Cat would not obey Adam. And when Adam gazed into Cat’s eyes, he was reminded that he was not the supreme being. And Adam learned humility.

      And God was pleased. And Adam was greatly improved.

      And Cat did not care one way or the other.

      Liked by 3 people

  4. Pingback: Interview with a Kia pt2: Turn about is Fair Play | The Recovering Know It All

  5. Reblogged this on Infected Saint and commented:
    KIA and I have been in a dialogue over the last several months about the faith. I am firmly planted in the faith and he has left the faith. I interviewed him and to keep it fair, he has now interviewed me. While he only gave me three questions I do see them as set up questions for he and his entourage to “catch” me in what they will deem fallacious arguments. Nevertheless, I answered them honestly. I am not using these answers to try and prove my faith. There are times when I will defend and argue the faith. Maybe through discussion from here I will do that. BUT, my answers to his questions were not that. They were my honest reflections.

    Like

  6. Pingback: Kia does Cat-urday: Why God created Cats. | The Recovering Know It All

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