My Journey pt 6: Choosing Blindness… Really? pt 2


“I Can’t Imagine or Accept what Science says against my Faith”

Posted as a Comment on A Disciple’s Study regarding Tim Challies’ article. Let’s see if it shows up on the blog or if the blog author just deletes it, shall we?

“i think the last bit is telling…
“If we admit and endorse an ancient universe, we see a vastly purposeless universe that for the great majority of time had no human beings to bring purpose and order to it. We see that humanity’s role in the universe is late and incidental rather than timely and purposeful. We see God’s creation existing for a million ages without the purpose and presence afforded by the one being created in God’s image. And, for me, that is one powerful argument for a universe that is only as old as humanity.”
—-
he thinks the “unthinkability” of such a conclusion reached from evidence and scientific inquiry is an argument against the conclusion. in the end, Faith wins and he chooses to continue to conform his view of reality to the bible, against the evidence to the contrary. he finds it just too uncomfortable a thought to consider the bible is wrong about almost everything it says with regards to science and the real world evidence, so he refuses to see what he does not want to. he has chosen the blindness of ‘seeing’ by faith over the sight of knowing by evidence and scientific inquiry. What can truly be said for such a position?”
-KIA

Again remember, neither arguments from Ignorance nor from Incredulity are arguments to support either

  • A) that the scientific evidence that opposes your Faith Convictions are incorrect or
  • B) that your Faith Convictions and Beliefs are in fact True

Even if the current models of Cosmology, Naturalistic and Evolutionary understandings of how the universe (this current universe even) began and developed into what we see and are today could ALL be proven wrong and deficient… the Biblical God and the Stories it tells about Creation, Adam and Eve, Sin and the Fall, Jesus and the Redemption of Mankind by the One Time Human Sacrifice of God in the Flesh on a Roman Cross… wouldn’t be True ™ “just be Default”. You STILL would bear the ‘Burden of Proof’ that in fact your Beliefs are Historically True and Accurate and you would still need to defend them from the Evidences against them by what Science, Historical Records and Archaeological Finds stack up against them.

Just saying that you can’t bear to think of the consequences to your Faith is Evidence itself is Stupifying and dishonest, both intellectually within yourself, but also dishonest with how you communicate to others. Pretty typical for Christian Apologetics though.

What would you say to Tim or the Blog Author? Did you have anything to contribute or tell me? Like, Share, Subscribe and Comment below. Thx again.

-KIA

The Believer’s Dispair of the Truth

Fear of the loss of his Innocence drives him to continue believing… regardless of Evidence and Historical Truth…

“… God’s Word trumps…”

In answer to the question “Should the Biblical creation story be viewed as literal or figurative?”

AUGUST 19, 2016 AT 9:35 AM
Wally Fry
Hey Lynn

Interesting question, and I am going to chime in! I am one of those “fundamentalists” First, I’m not here to debate any one one your blog, nor will I.

I happen to believe creation happened just as described in Genesis. Allow me to add some thoughts. Let me say first that I understand the reality of what seems to be compelling evidence from history and science that this account can only be figurative. Again, that’s an entire other subject. Being the fundamentalist that I am, I would simply state I believe God’s Word trumps.

The Believer denies evidence because to do otherwise… invites despair and disappointment… and deconversion…

Why does a literal creation matter? Some thoughts.

We we rule out a literal creation as just not possible we imply that God really couldn’t do all that. Well, if He could not speak the worlds into existence, then he is not much of a God.

Genesis 2:7 tells us God formed us with His own hands and personally breathed life into us. We were created in His image. Frankly, the entire evolutionary model, while seemingly compelling, destroys the very thought that humankind is in God’s image. The implications of evolving into God’s image are outstanding. That would imply that somehow we are, over time, able to become more God like and in His image. That would be no more than us working our way to salvation, by works. Toss grace out of the window. We didn’t evolve into God’s image, He created us that way.

And the full extent of the believer’s dispair… crescendos yet higher…

If there was no literal creation, and no literal garden, and no literal Adam and Eve…then there is….nothing. No Adam and Eve…….no fall into sin…..then no sin. No sin problem, then no need for Jesus, because if we aren’t sinners no need to any payment to be made. Frankly, Lynn, without a literal creation, then the entire rest of the narrative unravels as well.

Then we roll right back into we don’t need God, we don’t need Jesus. We just need to work hard and eventually we will evolve and change into something better.

I was wrong, Brother Wally. You DO understand…

It may seem at times that the literal account of Genesis is very hard to believe, but I maintain that it is a vital part of the entire Word of God upon which our faith is built.

You are just Afraid. Like I was. Like I am. But fear is no foundation for life, peace, joy and fulfillment. 

“… by the mouth of two witnesses…”, from an earlier post on The Resurrection

“Without a bodily resurrection, our entire faith simply melts away. Without the Resurrection, Jesus was not God; he was just a martyred prophet. Without the Resurrection, every single prophecy about it is false; that renders the Bible false. Without the Resurrection, even Jesus’ own prophecies about His death and Resurrection were false, making Him not even a real prophet, but a false one. ” – Wally.

I’m sad for you, Brother Wally… and hopeful .

Because if you understand what’s at stake, the devastation to your Faith in accepting evidence and historical truth… then even though for now… you maintain your Faith, later… Maybe not much later… you may understand where I am in my journey. Maybe even… you’ll join me, where the Evidence leads away from the Biblical God and to…

Recovery.

Truth ™ is sometimes… Askew to some people. But eventually, it all seems to straighten out and align with… 

Reality.

My hope for you, Brother Wally, and all who are now as I once was. Bound by fear of Truth.

-kia

Xtian Haiku: Memories on a Shelf

Travelogues 

Worlds of adventure

Mom and dad in the front room

Journeys of the mind.

kia

This is all I have left of the hundreds of books that lined the bookshelves of my parents home. I’m sad to say that because we have so many of our own and a total of seven bookshelves throughout our home, when my mom passed in April of 2013 we could only keep a few. I had to decide which books meant the most to me and spoke most clearly of my parents love for reading, their favorite authors, the genre that most accurately reflected their styles and tastes, or at least what I remembered them to be.

It’s fair to say that they were readers of a variety of books, mostly fiction with an historical anchor. They loved Clavell, and Michener, and LeCarre, and Robert Ludlum’s ‘Jason Bourne’. My mom and dad did read Lustbader’s version, but they pined for the ‘real thing’ after the death of the original author of the original trilogy. They would have hated the movies had they stumbled into a theater to watch them. They also liked Ken Follett, whom they posthumously introduced to my wife in the form of one of their books that we brought home. His Pillars of the Earth started her own love for the author and has led to us buying and reading others of his since. Mom and dad, were readers. They loved the adventures that stories and books contain, ready to sweep us off into adventures and high stakes intrigue between their covers and at the turn of every page. 

Yesterday passed the seventh anniversary of my father’s passing in 2010 and the things I remember about him have mostly to do with his books and reading. I carried to work with me his Zippo lighter and wore the watch mom gave me for Christmas many years ago. But among all the stuff and things that are still scattered around the house reminding me of them, in have memories of them on my shelf that I can pick up and retrace their steps in my own as I read what they read. I can hear their voices, see their faces as they were buried in their pages and consumed in the reading of these books, now on my shelf that were once in their hearts. And as I do, both the stories and my parents come alive again.

We miss you mom and dad. But we have your memories on a shelf and in our hearts. As long as we do, you will always live in our home. 

-kia


“Jesus Prayed like Someone was listening…”

… and Frodo really did disappear when he put on the Magical Ring

From a Christian Amateur Internet Apologist Extraordinaire this morning…

KIA

September 21, 2016 • 5:54 am
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Jesus prayed like someone was listening…

Of course he did. And the ‘fellowship’ holed up in Minas tirith hoped for gandalfs return, just like he was actually going to return.
They hoped in the Lord of the Rings like the nt Jesus prayed in the nt. But can you tell me, Brother James, is there any evidence outside of the nt that the character described in the nt is any less of a fictional person than gandalf the white?

The problem with actually saying this kind of stuff in public on the  internet… is that there is no way to call it back when you get called on your silliness. And that it makes for a great segue to reissuing a challenge that no one seems to want to accept.

“Go ahead, give us the non-biblical, 1st century contemporary secular historians that documented this Greatest Story Ever Told at the time it happened… The life, death, resurrection of the New Testament Jesus.. I’ll be waiting.” -kia

You see James, just because the Jesus portrayed in the NT said it, did it, ‘prayed’ it or anything else’d… it, does not mean that some Jewish zealot rabbi who might have  lived (and died) in the first century did it.

Ichthus… Precarious Perch

The four Gospels we still have after the Church either destroyed or ‘anathematized’ the rest of the 40 or so others are clearly works of fiction which in many places don’t even agree with each other, let alone much of actual history and archaeology. 

They along with the rest of the NT, and the OT for that matter, have been shown to be so edited, ‘interpolated’ to, redacted from, that they literally cannot be relied on to faithfully represent the original content or material written down in them. Forget the fact we don’t even HAVE original manuscripts, but pieced together and collated copies of centuries later, that don’t even agree with each other in hundreds of thousands of places.

‘Know’ Gandalf, know Peace?

No James, you don’t even know for certain or for original accuracy what the NT Jesus said or did or even how he ‘Prayed’, let alone that an actual 1st century Carpenter turned Prophet of Doom said or did or even Prayed any such things or ways.

I know that you think you do, but you don’t ‘Know’ THAT Jesus. And the one portrayed in your NT is a myth… you don’t know him either any more than you have a ‘living relationship to and with’ Gandalf the White Wizard of the Lord of the Rings. 

“And now back to our regularly scheduled content”

-kia

Janis Joplin: Prayer as Wish Fulfillment

Janice first performed this on August 8th, 1970 the same day she wrote it. 

“I’m a victim of my own insides. There was a time when I wanted to know everything … It used to make me very unhappy, all that feeling. I just didn’t know what to do with it. But now I’ve learned to make that feeling work for me. I’m full of emotion and I want a release, and if you’re on stage and if it’s really working and you’ve got the audience with you, it’s a oneness you feel.” -Janice Joplin

I think she knew the sadness of wanting to know it all. She grew up much as I did. In the Midwest. Christian family. She probably started out with a Faith like mine, that God, not just any god, but the biblical God had it all sorted. He knew what we didn’t. He controlled what we could not. He could supply what we lacked, and could be trusted with our lives. 

This song pokes a little fun at all that we once were before the world showed us differently. And before we realized the God of the Bible to be the Deadbeat Dad and absentee Father that He really is. There are still many who, like we did, still cry out in supplication and ‘with words that cannot be uttered’ for’help in their time of need’. But it seems silly now to me to ask for a Mercedes when halfway across the world, or even just downtown from me here in Arizona, people just need food, warm clothing and a roof for their families… yet have no answers. 

Some of them, many of them here in Christian America, ‘Ask, Seek, and Knock’ from the same God and His Son, Jesus … but not to ‘consume upon their own lusts’, yet still have not the things they request and need. God seems to be more interested in parking places and lost sets of keys.

Maybe this is why Janice lived so freely and with such emotion. She realized there would be no Mercedes, color TV or night on the town coming from the skies. She realized the ‘oneness’ of humanity and the connection we all share with each other and the personal responsibility to ourselves and others around us to ‘give us our Daily Bread’. 

She realized that no one Knows it All by themselves, not even that God she grew up with. We all ‘know in part’ and combine our parts with each other to know still not All, but more than we did before. She enjoyed life to the fullest and her concerts were a testimony to the unfettered “full tilt boogie” full of emotion and life. 

A life devoid now of meaningless and fruitless begging to a Biblical God who wasn’t there to answer. We are all we have. Humanity and  connection and in Janice’s word… Oneness. Embrace it. Embrace not having to Know it All today. Recovery awaits.

-kia