Do you believe the Unbelievable? Why and why not?

Christians, do you believe that Muhammed flew on a winged horse? Why not?

I give you… The Muslim ColorStorm:

I believe much stranger facts said by science which if you tell anybody 200 years ago would not believe and would call you crazy:

During your lifetime, you will produce enough saliva to fill two swimming pools.

The acid in your stomach is strong enough to dissolve razorblades. The reason it doesn’t eat away at your stomach is that the cells of your stomach wall renew themselves so frequently that you get a new stomach lining every three to four days.

The human lungs contain approximately 2,400 kilometres (1,500 mi) of airways and 300 to 500 million hollow cavities, having a total surface area of about 70 square metres, roughly the same area as one side of a tennis court. Furthermore, if all of the capillaries that surround the lung cavities were unwound and laid end to end, they would extend for about 992 kilometres.

Sneezes regularly exceed 100 mph, while coughs clock in at about 60 mph.

The human body is estimated to have 60,000 miles of blood vessels.

Nerve impulses to and from the brain travel as fast as 170 miles per hour. Neurons continue to grow throughout human life. Information travels at different speeds within different types of neurons.

Now i believe all these facts eventough i never did the discovery or the calculation by myself. I simply believe the scientist who did the discoveries.

Now you tell me why I should not believe my Prophet Muhammad when he said he travel from Makkah to Jerusalem with Buraq ( allegedly winged horse) .

Muslims, do you believe Jesus walked on water, raised the dead and was the Son of God? Why not?

I give you, the Christian Imam:

Yes. Consider Ephesians 3:9:

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid inGod, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Once you believe that Jesus was empowered by the Father in the beginning to create this physical existence we know, it is pretty easy to believe He could turn water into wine and walk on water. The great claim that people often think is unbelievable is the claim regarding who He was. As for what He did during His ministry, those things are all minor points. If you can create a universe, you can walk on water, most definitely.

Christians… Do YOU believe what could only be Unbelievable to others while disbelieving what THEY believe on Faith, the same way you do your beliefs? Why

Do you measure and critically examine your own beliefs with the same intelligent scrutiny that you dismiss the Unbelievable beliefs of other Faiths? 

Would you accept on Faith those Unbelievable beliefs the same way you do your own? Why or why not?

—-

My comment to Peter should give us all pause…

Literally, Peter, what could NOT be ‘true’ once a person has made such a decision to accept whatever a particular Faith or Holy Book says is true?
What could they NOT totally dismiss, from reality and science and evidence, that disagrees?
Faith in the Unbelievable, as ufuomaee states in her post that prompted mine, is truly a mind-numbing and dangerous thing.
What action, reaction, terrorism, crime or bigotry against mankind or individuals could NOT be justified in light of “thus saith the Lord God” or “Allah commands it”?

-kia

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76 thoughts on “Do you believe the Unbelievable? Why and why not?

  1. Mike I have also noticed how Muslim and Christian apologists often use similar arguments. What we can be certain of is that both can’t be correct.

    Perhaps we should sit on the sidelines and let the Muslims and Christians discuss the issues directly and say that once they have agreed their position we will listen to the consensus view.

    Of course I would not hold ones breath that there will be any discussion far less any agreement.

    It staggers me that these folk can’t see the utter hypocrisy of them dismissing each others religions and then somehow being critical of atheists for doing the same but for far better reasons and after far greater consideration.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Peter, how goes it my friend ?? It all boils down to saving faith…given to the unbeliever by God… I reference John 6:44, as usual…

      Once the new believer is filled with the Holy Spirit…the Word is illuminated…our worldly desires are changed in the blink of an eye, to desires to please our Father in heaven…we believe every word in the Bible was inspired by God, through the writers moved by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20-21)…and no matter how much science, or normal man’s reasoning that creation was impossible…or any other suggestion that God’s Word is full of flaws…becomes meaningless to the true, born again Christian,…

      We absolutely know for sure, that we are a redeemed child of God (Romans 8:15-16)…saved by grace alone, through saving faith alone in the Lord Jesus Christ…

      Until you are indwelt with the Holy Spirit Peter…you will not be able to believe what I am saying here…

      I believe all the noise the world tries to throw at us, is a test by God Himself… I believe God is capable of anything…including making the earth look like it is billions of years old…

      It is the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit living in me…that allows me to love even those screaming in my face…as long as I am Walking in the Spirit (Galatians 5:16)…

      God’s inerrant Word tells us there is only ONE GOD… No other religion has had their god risen from the grave… This is why we believe Muslims are believing in a false god…

      Peter, I wouldn’t change my life filled with God’s richest blessings, and the fruit of the Spirit that is growing and flourishing in my life…for anything, or anyone… It is really that simple…and yet still a mystery to me…

      Yes, we must be drawn in by God before we believe and receive Christ as our personal Lord and Savior… And yet our part is to hear, understand, (with eyes to see and ears to hear, given to us by God), and then to pray to God, seeking Jesus to come into our hearts…with ALL of our heart, mind, soul, and strength… Not possible, until God regenerates our heart… This mystery Peter, we will never be able to wrap our arms around… But this is why we believers love the Lord so much…

      He shed His blood on the cross for US !! We are saved by AMAZING GRACE !!

      Have a great day Peter !! (and you Mike, and all the rest !!)

      bruce

      Liked by 1 person

    • There is no hypocrisy is Muslims and Christians challenging Atheists for their lack of beliefs. Muslims and Christians have one thing in common, they both believe is the existence and authority of God, which is undeniable. Our issue with you is the same, you deny that He exists. You can’t come to the truth while you are in denial about that most basic truth. And because those who profess belief in God do not agree on His traits and commands and revelations does not mean that God doesn’t exist, anymore than Christians disagreeing over the practice of Christianity today doesn’t mean that Jesus never came to Earth! We are all seeking to know the Truth and there is a truth to know, but saying there is no God puts you far from it altogether.

      Cheers, Ufuoma.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Perhaps I should clarify, I am not dogmatic that there is no God. But I am reasonably confident that neither the Bible or Koran are divine books and as such if there is a God then most likely that God is distant from humanity and indifferent to the day to day lives of people.

        Observing the tragedy of the world and how history has played out makes more sense to me if there is no God rather than if there was an interventionist God.

        Both Muslims and Christians share the Noah story in their sacred texts. That story is one that I cannot accept as being actual history. The evidence against is so overwhelming that it would imply if there is God behind the sacred texts then that God was playing games with us.

        Liked by 1 person

            • I’ll check it out. But can you help me with some of the reasons you believe that such a thing as whether or not there was a flood in a time before archaeological data could be collected, studied and kept is feasible to determine?

              Liked by 1 person

              • Geological data and the fossil record shows no evidence of a global flood.

                In addition to the lack of evidence where there should be some, the flood story fails also in regard to the capacity of such an event to have occurred on a physical level. There is not enough liquid water and the DNA records show that at no time did any species of modern animal fall to a population of two. Logistically the Ark is way too small to include all the species of animals. In any case the occupants of the Ark would have died of methane poisoning if they really shut the hath.

                And as for dinosaurs on the Ark, well I won’t go there, except to observe it is complete nonsense.

                I don’t regard the ‘science’ of Answers in Genesis as being credible, I see them as akin to using science like people who use ‘evidence’ to ‘prove’ conspiracy theories, that is they focus on the 5% of evidence that might support their argument and ignore the 95% that is counter.

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              • Hi Peter, I recommend that you read my post titled: Musing on Time and Eternity, Evolution and Creation. Just search for it on my blog, blog.ufuomaee.org. My belief is that your calculations are flawed on the very fact that it is impossible to determine the age of a thing that is created!

                If you do read it, will be happy to continue this discussion after.

                Cheers!

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              • Ufuomaee, ‘it is impossible to determine the age of a thing that is created’

                I saw a Christian apologist argue once that ‘God’ could’ve created the universe already functioning, so with stars partially aged and with light in transit. Likewise the world could have been created with fossils and geological structures in place.

                I acknowledge this is possible but the only evidence for this is the Holy Books written by ancient humans who had little understanding of the world around them. As I said above this would make ‘God’ into a bit of a trickster.

                But more importantly by deft of hand you create an argument which is impossible to falsify. Very clever.

                So I will so I don’t accept the claims of the Bible because I find the book unreliable.

                An objective test I can apply is the prayer by Jesus:
                “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. (John 17:20-21)

                I have studied Christian history and if the unity of Christians was meant to be a sign for the world then it has failed miserably.

                Liked by 2 people

              • I agree with you on your last point. I’ve written about that plenty. It does make you wonder…. But the unreliability is with man and not with God. Even in the times the Bible was compiled and written…even the REASON the Bible had to be sealed, was because of division and false doctrine, so that the FAITH could be preserved. Like I’ve said to you and defended on my blog enough, the Bible is not infallible. Once you can understand that, you can appreciate it for what it is, and you will get a new perspective on the Faith and humanity.

                God chose flawed human, and He still chooses flawed humans, and we are yet to impress Him. Those who submit to His will are FAR less common that they appear. Remember Jesus said narrow is the way, and many will be surprised on the last day. This should help you to understand that it is not all those who claim to be Christian, now or in the past, that actually ARE or WERE. From the beginning, even with Judas, there were weeds… How more so now. The world is ripe for harvesting, and the real children of God will be revealed by their love for each other.

                Thanks for the chat!

                Liked by 1 person

              • Ah.. more dishonesty. Now you are implying that people like me and Peter never really were true Christians at all. You are truly rude, arrogant, prideful and condescending, ufuomaee. How dare you

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            • Peter, yup… and I’ve had that post up, just updated, for awhile now. It’s there for any who really want to know. Problem is, once you have set yourself to believe the Unbelievable against all contrary evidence or information, it’s very difficult to break out of the self imposed delusion

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              • Mike in a moment of weakness I commented on ColorStorms recent post. I invariably regret doing so as the discussion goes nowhere and there is so little common ground to have any reasonable discussion.

                What puzzles me is his cheer squad who seem to lap up the nonsense he sprouts. Just because it is lyrical does not make it true. His latest post belittling science is one I would have taken offense to when still a Christian (but then again he assumes that we were never ‘true Christians’).

                A faith that requires one to jettison science that has been proved correct through tried and tested methods overtime is a nonsense.

                Liked by 1 person

              • Mike, ColorStorm and Wally over there are just talking such utter rubbish, I shake my head. AS I said I should have learnt from past mistakes.

                You know there is some wisdom in the Bible when it says don’t answer the fool I his folly. CS really is a nutter and Wally too unwise not to see it.

                Liked by 1 person

              • Mike in regard to accusation that we were never a true Christian, I think that Bruce Gerencser’s response to that accusation is the one to go with. Bruce observes that never once was that accusation made of him in the 38 years that he was actively involved in the church, only after he left. Really one does not need to say anymore.

                I suspect you and I could say the same. I could give many testimonies about how others saw me as not only a Christian, but as a leader in the Church and as a person they went to for advice on their own Christian walk. In my case I was ordained by the Church as a minister, not something done lightly. I was friendly with ministers in other denominations and one of my Pentecostal friends would describe me to others as ‘a mighty man of God’ and would invite me to preach in his church.

                It came as a shock to me when I reached the conclusion that the Bible was not a divine book, but looking back I could make sense of it all and I could understand how much coincidence and psychology played in my interpretation of events that I thought were of ‘God’ at the time.

                Mike people who are still Christian have no alternative but to say we were never true Christians as to accept otherwise would be to admit that there is no divine element to Christianity.

                Liked by 1 person

            • Actually KIA, I was listening to it, but I haven’t finished. Been attending to my child and other things. You should know me enough now that I’m scared to read nothing and I always appreciate such challenging materials.

              It is weird because each time we discuss, you talk as though you have learnt nothing about me…

              No worries.

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        • Peter, the point of my post was as you say. Both Muslims and Christians believe the Unbelievable simply because it is written in their holy books. They are compelled to believe whatever it says once they accept the foundation of their faith.

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        • And if both believe ‘by faith’ that it’s all True, for the same reasons the other does…. how can the Other escape the conclusion that BOTH are misled and deceived in the same way?

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  2. Hi KIA,

    I don’t disbelief the claims on Muhammad because I think it is unbelievable. It’s definitely believable to someone like me who believes that Jesus died and was resurrected on the third day. The reason I don’t belief the Koran and follow Islam is because my belief in the Bible and Jesus indicate that they are wrong. So I can’t claim to believe both.

    Sincerely, Ufuoma.

    Liked by 3 people

    • And what would be your response to a Muslim who makes the equal and opposite claim?

      Is there a way you and this hypothetical Muslim might find to resolve the logical dilemma?

      Liked by 1 person

      • You have to leave God to what He does best. I have no business arguing with Muslims and trying to tell them that my way is best. After you have spoken the truth (preached the Gospel), what remains is to live it, and the witness and God’s Holy Spirit does the rest. Christianity is not a religion of compulsion. People have the free will to believe and to follow Jesus. If I have shared my faith with a Muslim and he is convinced that his way is the truth, then there’s no need arguing about it. He may not come to the truth today, but tomorrow’s another day, and God will still minister to him or her as He does to all. Same with an Atheist. No need arguing with people to believe the truth.

        Cheers, Ufuoma.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Literally, Peter, what could NOT be ‘true’ once a person has made such a decision to accept whatever a particular Faith or Holy Book says it true?
        What could they NOT totally dismiss, from reality and science and evidence, that disagrees?
        Faith in the Unbelievable, as ufuomaee states in her post that prompted mune, is truly a mind-numbing and dangerous thing.
        What action, reaction, terrorism, crime or bigotry against mankind or individuals could NOT be justified in light of “thus saith the Lord God” or “Allah commands it”?

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    • The problem with that answer is that it’s not entirely intellectually honest. If you examined the Christian claims, especially the ‘unbelieveable’ ones, in light of the way you examine those of other Faith’s, you would see the same unbelievability you see in their claims.

      Liked by 1 person

      • KIA, I have to say I don’t like you constant reference to my honesty. You keep saying at any giving opportunity that I am dishonest. I don’t appreciate that. It actually means that I can’t discuss with you sincerely. Just as you don’t like Christians saying you actually believe but are denying it, I don’t like being told that my arguments are dishonest. You can call them ill-informed or foolish, but dishonest implies that you believe I am intentionally out to deceive, which I am not!

        With that cleared up, I think that it id clear that I am not challenging Muslim or any other religious claims based on their unbelievability! I think the Christian claim that the jealous God, Yahweh, is has a Son Jesus, who is also Himself and is worthy of equal worship is indeed the most UNBELIEVABLE alone! On this teaching, we lose the Muslims, Jews and even some Christians (Jehovah Witnesses as an example). But I believe this most unbelievable of doctrines! So what can you put past me??? God can do anything and I am not limited in my capacity to imagine nor comprehend anything.

        Thanks!

        Liked by 1 person

          • For someone who believes absolutely nothing or who cannot even say exactly what he believes you have quite the nerve for calling someone dishonest.

            How can you know she’s being dishonest when you don’t know what you think

            Seems the only dishonest person here is you Mike.
            Seriously, what is your argument… you have none! You still cannot say what it is that you believe – remember?

            Liked by 1 person

          • You surely don’t really believe that do you?

            If Mike commented like ColorStorm then perhaps you could argue that. Surely if you were honest you might conclude that Mike is mistaken, but to call him a simpleton has no credibility.

            Liked by 1 person

            • Hi Peter. Ancients, just like wally, cs, ib, som and even ufuomaee will say and think whatever they need to in order to maintain the cocoon of their faith and shut out any other information or ideas.

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            • Peter, I absolutely believe Mike is a simpleton.
              3 days ago Mike told me: Certainty is an illusion.

              Right now, in this moment, Mike cannot (will not- to be generous) articulate what he believes; yet somehow he’s certain Ufuomaee is being dishonest in articulating HER beliefs.

              Perhaps you can explain this to me.

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              • By the way, where in Genesis 3 does it say that Adam and eve’s nature was changed to corrupt and sinful after their choice to eat the fruit?
                Please stick to Genesis 3 as the law of first mention requires

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              • Mike, I don’t know if it’s me you’re addressing this ‘concern’ to.

                I hope you realize it’s not an ‘actual fruit’ that was ‘eaten’.

                The same way you’re here daily ‘eating’ ‘atheist doctrine’– don’t deceive yourself into thinking it’s having no impact on you.

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              • And what exactly is the bible narrative Mike?
                The tree of life – is that an actual tree?
                Wisdom is the tree of life – Is Wisdom an actual tree.

                You’re displaying the fundamentalism that you mock in others.

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              • I just told you the tree of life is not an ‘actual’ tree… you don’t literally ‘eat’ a ‘fruit’…

                Your response was to ask me ‘if I’m saying the bible narrative is incorrect’.

                Someone whose an authority on Scripture wouldn’t be asking such juvenile questions.

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              • Peter, he can’t help himself. Christianity is his identity, as it was ours. To criticize christianity is, for him as it was once for us too, a personal attack that his pride and ego simply can’t allow to be unanswered

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              • I guess you deserve an E for at least formulating a response in defense of Mike.

                No need for puzzlement.
                Mike sets himself up as an authority on Christianity – to the extent that he can denounce Ufuomaee’s (and other Christians) beliefs as being dishonest even after correcting him on it.

                The reality is – Mike’s blog should be content free in terms of beliefs, as he cannot say what he believes.

                But every thinking person can see that for the absolute lie it is. Everyone believes something.
                Mike is not even honest enough to claim his beliefs.

                The things Mike chooses to write about El Elyon, Christ Jesus, is blasphemous, mockery, lies etc.

                Is Mike certain about the things he chooses to write.
                Why do it?

                So, when I have the time, I choose to come here and dispel any notion that Mike is an authority on Christianity, who is El Elyon and Christ Jesus.

                It’s a fulltime preoccupation dispelling all the lies you guys deliberately choose to tell.

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              • You’re sounding like the other scorners you hang around.
                Be not deceived, evil communications corrupt good manners.

                Have to go.

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  3. Pingback: Faith, Critical Thinking, and Beliefs – Faithful Doubts

    • By the way Tyler. I think your post may have misunderstood my challenge to Christians. I’m not asking why they don’t accept Islam to be true based on the same reason they accept christianity, I’m asking why they accept the Unbelievable claims of christianity when they reject the claims of Islam that they believe by the same reason, faith in the words of their holy book, that Christians accept Christianity’s claim that Jesus walked on water.
      Honesty would dictate they reject both.

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      • I don’t think we disagree much on this one. I think that reason is a function of social context, and the reason that Christians *can* believe biblical miracle stories is social context (immersion in the church). Some Christians may claim that they give some kind of unique epistemological privilege to scripture, but this is rarely if ever the case. (Look at all the things in Scripture they casually ignore) Sure, if someone really did grant the Bible the kind of unquestionable status that some claim to give it, this decision would be completely arbitrary because (as you point out) there are multiple holy books. I’m arguing that socialization, not a divinely inspired text, functions as the actual decider of what Christians (like everyone else) believe. This also explains why Christians would find the Jesus stories more believable than the stories of Mohammad.

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    • As far as we know, and we don’t know everything about the emergence of life, let alone consciousness… consciousness is an emergent property of the biological functioning of the brain

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      • Scientifically, we know nothing about the emergence of life. No repeatable experiment has ever been performed, nor has the phenomenon ever been measured. So, to say that consciousness is an emerent property of biological functioning is just conjecture. Unless, of course, you can provide an experiment in which consciousness has been constructed out of meat.

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