Oh Brother Dax, Hate is such a Strong Word. Transference much?

​((( 8/31/17 Reposting today for Someone who thinks it’s Christians that non Christians hate instead of just their religion. He really should be more honest with his use of the word Hate and with what those of his Faith call “preaching the Truth… in Love”.  )))

“Christians, we cannot compromise the truth or cower in the face of pressure. We are not bigots and hateful for standing up for truth as long as we do it with love and respect. “-Dax

Is it “ok” in your mind to say that people who don’t believe in, love and slavishly serve the God of the Bible… Deserve to go to Hell and be Eternally Tormented… “As long as you say it with Love and Respect”? Is that either Loving or Respectful to your mind? Is that not the very definition of Bigotted and Hateful for you to say with absolutely no shred of Actual Evidence that such a place as the Biblical Hell actually existing in Reality? 

Between Loving and Respectful vs Bigotted and Hateful, I’d put my money on those words, no matter HOW they are said, being extremely Bigotted and Hateful.

How does that work anyway? Bigotry and Hate aren’t really just about “how” you say something, Brother Dax. It’s very much still about WHAT you say and WHY you say it too. Sometimes its as simple as referring to people as “nonbelievers” or unbelievers in an effort to Rally the Troops to continue the “Christian Culture Wars” to “take america back from those godless heathen”. 

Give it a rest Brother Dax. 

Drop the false narrative, the transference and martyr/persecution complex and actually listen to what Christianity and Christians and even you yourself are saying. Try putting yourself in the shoes of those nonbelievers and hearing it from their perspectives. You may begin to understand why they feel the way they do about Christianity, Christians… and even you. 

Until then, posts such as the one you posted this morning are just False Narrative Strawmen built specifically to make you feel better, to massage your own ego, to confirm in you and those who read you the militant “Us vs Them Martyr/Persecution” complex you obviously cherish. Is that really what it takes to maintain your Faith in the presence of opposition and intelligent and reasoned disagreement? 

There is no grace or compassion or understanding, no humility or empathy or love… and very precious little Humanity in your words, Brother. Only condescension, meanspritedness, arrogance, pride and yes… Hatred for those who don’t believe what you believe, the way you believe it. No matter how kindly or sweetly or gracefully you say it, or in this case… don’t. 

The way you refer to Nonbelievers or Unbelievers as Haters of Christians… really? Your whole diatribe is dehumanizing to an entire group of people, simllly because they don’t believe the same way you do. You honestly dont see in your own words and tone your own hatred of those who disagree with you, most of them for good reasons?

The way you refer to nonbelievers in your post Brother Dax is demeaning and dehumanizing, as if they are “non people” or even animals. This is what Hatred for your fellow man looks like. Recognize it for what it is IN you, because that is what Christianity itself has done TO you. 

Your religion has set you up as a Soldier for Jesus, a tool or Weapon of God in a ‘Sin-sick’ and Morally Twisted World. You no longer seem to see People as People. You’ve lost the ability to see Trees for the Forest. You are as blinded by your Christianity as the man who the Gospels say Jesus healed of blindeness and at firat saw men as Trees, not as they were… People. 

This is what your Faith of Christianity has done TO you. And this is why nonbelievers, unbelievers and, speaking for myself alone, Deconverts from Christianity like me Hate Christianity… NOT Christians. We don’t hate YOU. We hate and despise the Religion that has bound you to hate US with posts filled with Hatefilled words aimed as Weapons against Real People you no longer see or want to understand as People.   

Remember… “Abused people Abuse other People”. This is what the cycle of the Dehumanizing Doctrines of Total Depravity and Original Sin, and the continual breaking down of humanity with messages of 

“You’re not or never will be good enough for heaven. None of us are. We are all bound to Sin and bound for Destruction. All we deserve ourselves is he’ll and eternal destruction and torture from the Holy God who HATES our sin and HATES sinners”.

… does to you. 

Exactly who is the Hater spreading Hatred here, Brother Dax? It’s not me Brother Dax. Search your heart and soul. 

Search thru your history books and see how Christianity and Christians thru the ages have shared the “Love of God in Christ” when they have had the power and political authority to get away with it. When it comes to Hatred and acts of hatred done against those who oppose… you’ll find the proverbial shoe very much on the other proverbial foot. Now… a word from our Sponsor from the Original post.  🙂 -kia

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Who Hates Who… or is it Whom?

 “Do not I hate them, O Lord , that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?  I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.” –Psalms 139:21‭-‬22 KJV


This comment came to my reader this morning from Brother Wally in response to a comment I made to another person’s post on being funny… or not as the case may be. Let’s just say, Wally doesn’t like me so much. He seems to use opportunities like my comments to other people on their blogs to try to ‘love me back to jesus’ by violent hostility and aggressive bullying tactics like this one and another one from yesterday when I asked a question on Mandy’s post on slavery. 

I usually slough it off for the insecure and defensive reaction to questioning that it is, but this time it spawned the post you see now.

“And you use YOUR hatred as a badge of honor and a way to gain approval from your cackling band of hyenas.” -Wally, lover of god, jesus, and all people


To which I responded…

Hi wally. Have a great day. I don’t hate anyone at all.


And that’s what Triggered this post on Hate.

What wally doesn’t seem to understand is that Disagreement, opposition and even advocacy against someone or something doesn’t equate to Hate. Not even Disliking someone or something is akin to Hating. 

I hate no one. 

I may hate ideas, ideologies, lies, propaganda, even particular religions… yup, you got me there. But I do not hate anyone… at all. When I disagree, comment on a post in opposition to stupid ideas coming from stupid people who have been and are continuing to be duped by and promote stupid religions… I am not Hating those people. 

I hate things, ideas and anything that puts people in bondage to lies and in opposition to themselves

“But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” –Jesus, ‘Lover of My Soul’ as the Returning King in the Parable of the Talents, Luke 19:27 KJV

If you really want to know Hatred, you need look no further than the Bibles on your shelves. Have a great day. 

-kia

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Reblogging again: Kadesh Barnea, Gaza, and The Exodus

Since wordpress apparently won’t let me reblog a post directly twice, and I deleted my previous reblog during one of the Monthly Blog Reset Purges in the past, here’s a direct copy and paste of John’s POST on the utter poverty of actual Evidence FOR the Exodus Story and virtually undeniable, except by Blind Faith that is, Avalanche of Actual Evidence AGAINST it. My original comment from his post, and then the body of it will follow. -kia

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Reblogged this on The Recovering Know It All and commented:
To paraphrase a well known verse from Psalm 113,”If the foundations be destroyed, what can the ‘Christians’ do?”. The only answer to this age old question is to Ask more questions, Seek better answers than what your Teachers and Leaders have allowed you, and start Thinking for yourselves. If the very foundational truths, evidence and historical proof of what you believe is non existent, if instead the Historical, Archaeological and Scientific evidence that DOES exist points in the opposite direction and conclusively proves your Faith is built on Myths, Legends and Lies… “what is the Righteous to do?”…
If they are Honest, Open and have any shred of Intellectual Integrity left, the will Deconvert from Christianity and go into ‘Recovery’ from Knowing It All-ism.
Thanks again to John Z. for such a well researched and presented piece. Truly heartbreaking for the Christian, but I’d rather live in the Real world than for a Dead ‘Savior’. -KIA

And now… a word from the author of the post itself. Cheers. Please visit the original blog, and author. Engage in Reality. -kia

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Kadesh Barnea, Gaza, & The Exodus

The Jewish origin tale recounted in the Pentateuch is a work of geopolitical fiction. This is the uncontested consensus of biblical archaeologists and bible scholars. It has been the consensus position amongst professionals for nearly three generations now, but as the Chief Archaeologist at Jerusalem’s Israel Museum, Professor Magen Broshi, explained: “Archaeologists simply do not take the trouble of bringing their discoveries to public attention.” So solid is the consensus, and so definitive the evidence supporting it, that in 1998, the American Schools of Oriental Research (ASOR), the primary American professional body for archaeologists working in the Middle East, changed the name of its professional publication from Biblical Archaeologist to Near Eastern Archaeology simply because the bible had been determined to be (beyond all doubt) an entirely unreliable historical source to direct research into the early Jews, pre-Babylonian captivity. Indeed, in that same year, even Christianity Today’s Kevin D. Miller conceded: “The fact is that not one shred of direct archaeological evidence has been found for Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob or the 400-plus years the children of Israel sojourned in Egypt. The same is true for their miraculous exodus from slavery.”

These are just the facts. They are not a secret. The information has been in the public domain for decades, and today even the majority of Jewish rabbi’s openly concede their origin narrative is a work of fiction cast as a family unity tale: Isaac in the north (Israel), Jacob in the south (Edom), and Abraham, the father, right in the middle in Hebron (Judah) uniting them all. Imagined in the 8th and 7th century BCE, the story was designed to place Judah at the centre of the Jewish world so as to capitalise on a weakened Mamlekhet Yisra’el (whose name is derived from El, the father of the Canaanite pantheon, not the Judean Yhwh) after its sacking in 722 BCE. Coincidently, the 8th/7th century was precisely when the high priest, Hilkiah, miraculously rediscovered the supposedly “long-lost” scroll of the law, the Sefer Torah, hidden in a wall, telling this fantastic tale how his kingdom, Judah, was in fact the center of the Jewish world.

Convenient and timely discoveries aside, it is, however, known today that the very hills where the kingdoms of Judah and Israel would be found were not inundated with 2.5 million “arriving” slaves in the 14th Century BCE, rather they were first settled 50 years after the well-documented landing of the Philistines on the Levant in 1100 BCE. This is known today as the Settlement Period, it lasted for about a century, and the total population of the initial 11 villages never exceeded 30,000 during that entire period.

Libraries of evidence exist which confirm this more pedestrian history of the early Jews, but there is a contemporary case study which helps illustrate how just one element of the Exodus tale, for example, can be graphically shown to be myth.

In the Exodus tale, Kadesh Barnea (today known as Tell el-Qudeirat) is the site between the Wilderness of Paran (Num 13:3) and the Wilderness of Zin (Num 13:21) where the 2.5 million Hebrew refugees (Exodus 12:37) spent 38 continuous years in the 14th Century BCE before entering Canaan.

For a visual reference, this is what a temporary encampment of just 2 million extremely well-organisedpeople without animals, food, water, or belongings of any sort looks like for one week at the 2016 hajj.

hajj-3

Over four decades in Kadesh Barnea, they built homes, got married, raised children, died, and were buried. For four decades they conducted business, practiced law, and dealt with the affairs of state, including defence which would have demanded fortifications and guard towers. The daily nutrition needs of 2.5 million people (a population roughly the size of Chicago) would have demanded the establishment of extensive farms, roads for transportation and distribution, and, importantly, enormous food depots and storage facilities. No doubt, the presence of 2.5 million people (half the population of the Egyptian Kingdom at the time) would have drawn traders from nearby towns eager to service this huge (static) population. Trade would require some sort of currency, so a mint and central bank would have had to of been established, and guarded. Indeed, to satisfy the material needs of 2.5 million people, mines would have been sourced, secured, and worked. Industrial-sized smelters and metal forgery’s would have to of been constructed, turning out everything from weapons to farming equipment. Colossal pottery enterprises would have had to of been built that would have demanded equally enormous supplies of raw materials and the construction of industrial kilns. Brickworks would have been established, as well as the public infrastructure for sewage and general waste disposal. At a minimum (and not including bathing, irrigation, or other uses), 2.5 million people would consume 5 million litres of water every day, requiring dozens of deep wells feeding local aqueducts and immense reservoirs. Schools and places of worship would have been built and adorned. Multi-seated entertainment venues would have hosted music and theatre. Governing bodies would no doubt need a permanent place to meet, and this central government apparatus would almost certainly have been supported by numerous satellite councils which operated medical clinics, garbage collection, and other day-to-day civil services.

In Kadesh Barnea, according to the narrative, the Hebrews had to wait until all the original men of fighting age had died, meaning a minimum of 600,000 graves. Naturally, when considering all other deaths in the forty year period, the real number of burials would be closer to 2-3 million.

For a visual reference, this is Wadi us-Salaam (“Valley of Peace”) cemetery in Najaf, Iraq. The cemetery has been in use for over 1,400 years, covers an area of 1485.5 acres, and contains an estimated two to three million bodies.

wadi-us-salaam-31

Given all this, and more, it should not come as any surprise to anyone that Kadesh Barnea was the very first site archaeologists (many of whom were American evangelicals) poured over in the first half of the 20th Century, eventually spending decades looking for evidence of this enormous city: its foundations, graveyards, drainage systems, fireplaces, landfills, etc.

Those decades of exhaustive work can be summarised in one sentence:  nothing was found from the 14th Century BCE. The site was first occupied in the Iron Age (a tiny, primary 12th to 10th Century BCE settlement), then adorned with a small fort which stood from the 10th to 8th Century BCE.

Now, it does not take any great intellectual effort to understand that this was extraordinarily strange, and just a little northwest of Tell el-Qudeirat is a living example of just how strange this total and complete absence of hard archaeological evidence was: Gaza.

In 1948 the virtually undeveloped Gaza strip (home to approximately 35,000 in Gaza City, excluding Bedouins) became home to 233,000 Palestinian refugees experiencing their own forced Exodus, the Nakba. Here they established eight main refugee camps: Beach Camp (housing 23,000 refugees), Bureij Camp (13,000), Deir el-Balah Camp (9,000), Jabalia Camp (35,000), Khan Younis Camp (72,000), Maghazi Camp (24,000), Nuseirat Camp (16,000), Rafah Camp (41,000).

To be clear, this 233,000 is an eleventh of the total number of refugees who are said to have settled Kadesh Barnea.

Today in the Gaza Strip, 68 years after Nakba, that initial refugee population of 233,000 has become 1.26 million (1.76 million Gazans in total), for whom the United Nations Relief and Works Agency alone operates 245 schools, two vocational and technical training centres, 22 primary health centres, six community rehabilitation centres, and seven women’s programme centres.

And that’s just that one UN agency.

To make this point perfectly clear, let’s focus on one camp only: Beach Camp, also known as “Shati.” The 0.52 square kilometres camp is on the Mediterranean coast and initially accommodated 23,000 refugees who’d fled mostly from Lydd, Jaffa, and Be’er Sheva. Through natural birth rates, today, 68 years later, the camp has nearly quadrupled in size to 87,000 (still thirty-times less than the 2.5 million refugees who settled Kadesh Barnea), and includes 32 schools.

And here is a brief photographic journey through the history of the Beach Camp: Shati.

Beach Camp, 1948.

Gaza, Beach Camp, 1948

Beach Camp two years later, 1950, school operated by Jordanian government.

ByDlthJCQAEGHVe

Beach Camp four decades later in the 1990’s.

Gaza, Beach Camp, 1980

Beach Camp in 2006, population 80,000.

GAZA-BEACH-CAMP

The photo above is what 23,000 refugees can do in a few decades. To make life bearable, it’s what they must do. And so now take a look at the following two photographs: the first is what archaeologists found when they first arrived at Kadesh Barnea, where 2.5 million refugees allegedly spent four decades. The second is Kadesh Barnea today; the excavation in the foreground is the remains of the 10th to 8thCentury BCE fort. Nothing from the 14th Century BCE has ever been unearthed… Not even a single pottery shard.

ths is what they found

Tie Tuesday: early Superhero Wednesday edition

Be the Superhero that your Teammates and Customers Need you to be

Kia’s Words of Work Worth

  • Everyday is a Job Interview
  • Always work so as to be the MVP of your Team
  • Never stop Learning, Never stop Growing, and Never stop Working

Yup, that’s me wearing another one of the ties in my closet. It’s my wife’s birthday this week so I’ll be off on Wed and Thurs, therefore I won’t be posting the Superhero Wednesday for work this week. I thought I’d combine the two posts today for a Superhero Tie Tuesday. Let me know what you think.

-kia

Piranhas and Lions Create Deconverts and Atheists, James

((Reposting for Citizen Tom this morning))


In answer to a comment from on CS’s post the other day answering another Christian on who exactly ‘creates’ atheists and non believers…

Atheists don’t create other atheists as much as they provide support for people who already believe exactly the same way they do.



To which I replied… or would have if I trusted the blog host to not edit or slice and dice my comment 🙂  …

You are correct James. Atheists don’t create atheists. And non Christians don’t create Deconverts of Christianity. For that it takes Evidence and the ‘help’ of Christians like yourself. You ‘create’ non believers with your behavior and lack of understanding. Thanks for helping me see that there is no truth in Christianity.-kia

and it’s true. “These are the wounds I received in the house of my friends” could easily be said of how Christians such as I was are treated for asking questions ‘outside of the lines’ or trying to be honest with the answers and evidence.

A word from the Christian in the middle hot seat this time

silenceofmind says:

Storm,

If atheism, not Christianity, reigns supreme in Western Civilization.

If atheism has no basis, why has it replaced Christianity.

Apparently, Christianity has even less basis than atheism.

One of his more salient points of the conversation

The proof of what I’m saying is how the W, CS, and IB Trio treated and ganged up on SoM… a Fellow Believer in Christ… for trying to correct CS and his understanding of scripture, doctrine and Catholicism. 

My own story of abusive treatment at the hands my ‘loving brothers in Christ’ happened a couple of years ago when i was still a Christian asking questions on James’s and Wally’s blogs trying to get honest and better answers based on new information I was learning on the internet and other non Christian blogs about the very foundations of my Faith.

Instead of answers, I got treated like and called an atheist, a ‘not a True Scotsman’, and a malicious and ‘hate-filled person just wanting to bash christians’ when in reality… none of that was true. I was a 34yr long Christian, 25 of those in various ministry roles, who just wanted better answers in the face of new evidence. I was a Christian when they treated me this way, just like SOM.

So the Truth of the matter is James, Wally, CS… he’s right. Atheists don’t create atheists and Deconverts from Christianity … 

You do. Congratulations, your Saviour would be proud.

-kia

Bertrand Russell on Truth, Love and Tolerance as a way of living 

Words to remember and live by

Bertrand Russell

“I should like to say two things, one intellectual and one moral. The intellectual thing I should want to say is this: When you are studying any matter, or considering any philosophy, ask yourself only what are the facts and what is the truth that the facts bear out. Never let yourself be diverted either by what you wish to believe, or by what you think would have beneficent social effects if it were believed. But look only, and solely, at what are the facts. That is the intellectual thing that I should wish to say…”

(Pause to include a word from the Answers in Genesis Statement of Faith…)

  • By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information.

(Please continue….)

“… The moral thing I should wish to say…I should say love is wise, hatred is foolish. In this world which is getting more closely and closely interconnected we have to learn to tolerate each other, we have to learn to put up with the fact that some people say things that we don’t like. We can only live together in that way and if we are to live together and not die together we must learn a kind of charity and a kind of tolerance which is absolutely vital to the continuation of human life on this planet.”

― Bertrand Russell

“Love is Wise, Hatred is Foolish” -Bertrand Russell

-kia

Aug 26: Today is National Dog Day

Xtian Praise: Dog is Love (or Evol?)

Sing along… you know the song.

((This here is Sonny-Boy))

Our Dogs are Some Awesome Dogs

(chorus)

Our dogs are some awesome dogs

they reign over all the home

with growling, barks and love

our dogs are some awesome dogs

(Verse One)

Sonny isn’t jok’in when he’s jumpin’ for some treats

(our dogs are some awesome dogs)

he’s a jumpin’ on the couch and likin’ on his lips

(our dogs are some awesome dogs)

even though he just went out and came back in the doggie door

is wasn’t for no reason that he did his thing

he’s hopin’ we have not too quickly forgotten…

that our Dogs are some Awesome Dogs…

(chorus)

Our dogs are some awesome dogs

they reign over all the home

with growling, barks and love

our dogs are some awesome dogs

 ((… and Princess Daisey-Mae))

(Verse Two)

Six pounds of white hair and thinks she’s 98.

(our dogs are some awesome dogs)

she’s waiting for her kibble, you better not be late

 (our dogs are some awesome dogs)

the Judgement of a Maltese girl, really not like Sodom

you’ll be wishin’ for the Fire when you meet her gaze.

Just a  second more and Daisey ‘knows’ she’s been forgotten

Cuz Our Dogs are some Awesome Dogs

(chorus)

Our dogs are some awesome dogs

they reign over all the home

with growling, barks and love

our dogs are some awesome dogs

(Verse Three)

They love their little home, we love our little kids

(our dogs are some awesome dogs)

The joy they bring our life, we really can’t resist

(our dogs are some awesome dogs)

Sonny-Boy and Daisey-Mae fill our home with laughter

they run and jump around, we love to watch them play

you better be believin’, that it’s Happy ever after

Cuz Our Dogs are some Awesome Dogs

(chorus)

Our dogs are some awesome dogs

they reign over all the home

with growling, barks and love

our dogs are some awesome dogs

(chorus)

Our dogs are some awesome dogs

they reign over all the home

with growling, barks and love

our dogs are some awesome dogs

-KIA

Tie Tuesday: Books edition

One thing I retained and even expanded on from when I was Christian is my love for books and reading. I grew up watching my parents reading and collecting books. As a kid and then a young adult, I tried to “love reading” but just couldn’t muster the enthusiasm for it like I saw my parents have. Sure, I had books and read on occasion, but it just wasn’t the same.

When I came back to Christ after finishing the Army in 1989, I dedicated myself to reading, studying and really learning the Bible and Theology. This led to a love for reading all things Christian and all things do do with theology, apologetics and doctrine.

I can emphatically say that one of the greatest gifts in my Christian life was the love of reading and learning that it grew in me over the decades. Now as a Deconverted Christian, I still love books, reading, learning and growing in understanding of the world around me. I just have a much wider and less narrowed interest in subjects. 

I can honestly say… Thank God, wherever She is, for books and the ability to read.

-kia

Xtian Poetry: Thoughts on “How long?”

Thoughts on the Journey

How long should it take 

How long should I hesitate

How long must the future wait

How long till I finally make

The full Journey from and to myself?

“dude, just move on”

“Why mourn relationships gone?”

“Go forward, look beyond”

“You can’t let go and still hold on”

But ‘Eyes have not seen nor ears heard’… a more silly way to comfort a wounded soul.

It takes as long as it takes. It hurts as much as it hurts. It feels as deep as it has to feel. It bleeds as long as the wound is fresh. Till the oozing stops and time crowns my wound with a scar called… Survival

Until then… I’m in Recovery. Deal with it!

-kia

Friday Morning Grace: Embrace True Forgiveness

My question for today is “Cannot the One who made up the rules and is Only offended by their abrogation just simply… Forgive?” My answer is… Yes. Yes he can. But why doesn’t He? -kia

“True Forgiveness is me giving up my right to any Recompense for the wrong you have done to me. It means neither you or anyone else has to pay the Penalty or the Price. Otherwise it’s not Forgiveness, but just Punishment or Scapegoating someone else to keep you from needing Give what only you can give… True Forgiveness… Forgives.” -kia

In Christianity and according to the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, 

  • God creates the World, Us and All there is
  • He makes the rules
  • Only He is ‘ultimately’ offended
  • Ultimately, He is the Creditor
  • Only He is Unchanging and Unchangeable
  • Nothing we do or say can ever minimize or diminish What and Who He is

He could just Forgive, 

  • but He chooses to Recompense Eternal Punishment and Torture for Finite offenses to His supposedly  Unchangeable and Unaffected Glory committed by Limited creatures such as we during our Finite lifetimes. 

He could just Forgive, 

  • but His Glory ‘demands’ Payment and Retribution, whether by or on You and I in a place of Everlasting Fire or His Own Son on an equally Finite and Limited torture and death on a cross. (A three day ‘take back’)

He Himself says Only He is ultimately offended. 

  • Only He is able to Forgive and Release the Sinner from the Price and Penalty by True Forgiveness… Relinquishing His Rights to Recompense… on You or anyone else FOR you.

He could just Forgive… He did David after the Rape of Bathsheba, and the Murder of he husband Uriah… wouldn’t You? 

  • Have you asked yourself, christian… If He can and He could… Why won’t He and Why doesn’t He?

Embrace True Forgiveness Today. 

My Hope for you who are still as I once was, a Christian Slave to a False System of Divine Human Sacrifice and Eternal bondage or Eternal punishment… is that you would simply walk away from the False Forgiveness and system of Penalty, Price, Punishment and Pain. That you would learn that There is no Scapegoat. There is only True Forgiveness… or Recompense. We forgive each other (or not) for offenses done to us… no God of the Bible involved at all.

“I set before you Life… therefore, Choose Life”-kia paraphrase

Choose True Forgiveness Today and Give it to others Freely. Leave the False Forgiveness of Torture, Punishment and Death for the True Forgiveness of Life and Peace. Recovery Awaits. 

-kia