Death of a Salesman

Unless you’ve been cloistered in a convent or a medeval monistery, you will no doubt have heard of the passing of world evangelist and “Pastor to Presidents” Billy Graham in his home in North Carolina at the ripe old age of 99.

There have already been some news reports with glowing and positive retrospectives, and a couple less than kind, on the life of the man who travelled around the globe giving empassioned messages and pleas for millions of people, ordinary and everyday people, presidents, prime ministers, Parliaments and congresses, kings and queens, to “Repent and be Born Again”.

In his earlier years he was a Firebrand preacher warning of the flames of hell and bidding all comes to “Come to Christ” for salvation, healing, hope and eternal life”. As Billy got into his later years though, the Message of the Cross didn’t change, but it seemed that he had. No longer willing, on several occasions on public interviews and interfaith forums, to condemn people of other faiths to the flames that the Bible consigned them to outside of Christ, he seemed to embrace a type of compassionate stance that among friends in the church was still exclusive, yet among those outside the doors of the church… was a bit less so.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/hewhohasearslethimhear.wordpress.com/2010/08/07/billy-graham-affirms-that-a-man-can-be-saved-apart-from-the-name-of-christ/amp/

When I was a Christian this was big news.

It was a reason many people, myself included, no longer considered Billy Orthodox and some even thought he was Antichrist.

I may be wrong, but I think Billy saw the futility of assigning others to a Hell he had no actual evidence for, yet still fully believed was there. And I think Rev Graham began to question the wisdom and propriety of denying people access to the Heaven that he fully believed in, yet had no actual evidence that others of different Faith Traditions would be excluded from.

I think Billy opened up.

No, I’m not saying he denied his own faith or rejected the biblical message… Among his fellows. But among those outside of the “Faith once delivered to the Saints”, what he admittedly accepted and held to simply by Faith, and even against evidence that might be to the contrary, it seemed he could no longer hold against those who didn’t have the same opinion or Faith as he.

He didn’t deconvert. He grew older and wiser and perhaps more compassionate with age and experience. Less willing to judge that he knew the mind of God for others. He allowed the possibility that he could be wrong by allowing the possibility that others might also be right. Or at least as “right” as he was… by nothing more than Faith to support them both.

Again, I may be wrong but I think Billy stopped preaching Hell and started preaching Heaven, hope and peace with God because the one sounded more real and empathetic than the other… and he knew he didn’t have actual Evidence for either. Among friends he was still a believer, but outside with others of different Faiths he became a type of Agnostic Theist, a Christian Humanist . No longer willing himself to consign others to flames but also unwilling to deny hope and life to anyone, regardless of Faith.

This is the Billy Graham that I will remember and honor today. Because doesn’t even Billy Graham deserve redemption and forgiveness from his past? Maybe Billy Graham entered The Recovery and no one knew… but him and his God.

-kia

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Saddened and Angered at the same time.

Buzzards Circling and Fighting over the Dead

I have no full idea or understanding what would cause this young 19yr old kid, who had lost both parents so you and close together, who was probably on antidepressants with their recorded side effects of suicidal and homicidal thoughts, to shoot up his old high school and kill 17 other young people and adults. None of us fully understand or can fully appreciate the causes of this, another heartbreaking school shooting, or the full pain and anguish being felt by the families of those who have been killed and injured. Our compassion, empathy and hearts should be with them.

But I damn sure know that attempting to make Political or Religious… Even Anti-religious Points is exploiting, perverse and extremely inappropriate.

You who see it necessary to ‘strike while the iron is hot’ or ‘never let a tragedy go to waste’… on BOTH or all sides of the “conversation” make me sick and angry. How dare you USE the deaths of these kids and the pain of these families as grist for your opportunistic Political and Religious points.

How Dare You? Have you no shame, no compassion, no empathy, no sense of propriety? Before the caskets are even in the ground. Before the families have even had a chance to grieve their loss… Like buzzards on carrion you jump on the bodies and wave them around for your own agendas and propagandas. How dare you?

-kia

Prayers for Change

(((Reposting, in light of yet more “Prayers” from the Faithful to End School Shootings -kia))

If one’s understanding of God is that He is…

  • all perfect,
  • all knowing,
  • all good

If He is also…

  • all merciful,
  • all gracious,
  • all benevolent

and in addition,

if He is… All Powerful to “… help us in our time of need…” as the book says, then Intercessory and Petitionary Prayer is really an expression of doubt or lack of Faith of the petitioner in the One being petitioned. You read that right.

Intercessory and Petitionary Prayer is an expression of doubt or lack of Faith in the One’s either Ability or Willingness to help because…

If he knows all, then why must we have to tell him?

If he is all good and perfect, why does he need us to petition him in order to move on our behalf?

If he is all merciful, benevolent and gracious, why would he not simply provide and as another verse in the book says “… hear us before we call…” and speedily answer the needs and cries of his children that he “loves with an everlasting love”?

And the kicker is… if he is all powerful to do so, then why do so many Prayers and Pleas for assistance, healing, justice and righteous defence go unanswered?

If god cares and his heart breaks for the downtrodden, the defenseless… the Unborn Children… Why does he even “need” us to “Pray for the End of Abortion” anyway?

And when we do… Why does it not end? Epicurus might have had the answer when he suggested that he is either unwilling, unable, or simply not there to answer.

I had an interesting exchange with a Tom today where he wrote a post on his blog “Are you ProAbortion”. I had answered him in a comment I left saying the question was as silly as asking someone if they were Pro- any other legal, safe medical procedure deemed medically necessary by a patient, in consultation with their doctor and family. And I finished by telling Tom that it wasn’t his or my decision or judgement to make. It was up to the Person, her doctor and family.

His answer to my comment was ironic and filled with not a small amount of cognitive dissonance, thus this post. He said…

You are making a decision. Doing nothing requires a decision. When Pontius Pilate washed his hands, he made a decision.

The reason that it’s ironic, regardless of whether Pilate ever did any such thing outside of the pages of the New Testament (which he didn’t, by the way), is because his God… doesn’t seem to be “doing” anything about abortion either. So I asked Tom whether he though God had “made his decision” by “doing nothing” also.

Tom never answered that question. That was telling.

  • Can we “Pray to End Abortion” or any other real or perceived injustice?
  • Can we Pray to protect us, but certainly not those evil neighbors of ours in the next two over, from the hurricane or tornado or forest fire ‘du jour’?
  • Can we Pray for a child stricken with childhood leukemia or sickle cell anemia, or spina bifida, or cystic fibrosis… to be Healed and made whole?
  • Can we Pray and expect anyone to be listening or anything at all to happen?

The very act of Intercessory or Petitionary Prayer belies our Faith that we can. It belies the very idea of an All Loving, merciful, knowing, gracious benevolent and Powerful God who hears and answers those prayers in any detectable or verifiable way.

When you pray, you are literally confessing that God has not already moved to your aid, and that he has to be prodded, goaded, convinced, and or flattered into doing what he should be doing by his very nature and inclination…. if he is all of those “Alls”.

Tom confessed today that his God had “made a decision” by “doing nothing” to end abortion, save the Unborn, and keep them from being killed in the womb. Maybe God is Himself… “Pro-Abortion”? Reading the Old Testament, He certainly doesn’t seem to be Pro-life. Lol

Or… Maybe God just realizes that patients, in consultation with their doctors and families… sometimes Choose to terminate a pregnancy as the most safe, legal and medically necessary option for them at the time. Maybe God Himself realizes that sometimes, it’s not even His decison or judgement to make.

So go ahead Tom, JB or whoever… please go right ahead and “Pray for the End of Abortion”, but God’s not listening. He’s made his decision by doing nothing. He’s leaving it up to Patients, their Doctors and their Families. No God or Government required or requested.

-kia

The Most Unanswered Prayer that no one Admits to

((Reposting for cs this morning, the evangelical ecumenical wanna be. Enjoy. -Kia))

“And they’ll know we are Christians by our love, by our love…”
While one amateur Internet Apologist Extraordinaire recently blogged that Jesus Prayed like Someone was Listening, and I did a repost post to it
… another Christian blogger CS suggested recently that Unity could only be found among Christians by ignoring their differences and treating them, at least in conversations on the Net within earshot of non believers, as if they were too small to matter.
Recently THIS not so funny guy is saying that God Hates Denominations. I think he’s not completely being honest about the full implications of his ironic post. The issue isn’t as much that Christians can’t get their S#!T together… it’s that Jesus’ Prayer for Christian Unity in John 17 is…
“The ost Unanswered Prayer that no one Admits to”.

1 Corinthians 1:10-13 “Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?”

I do think CS has got one thing right though. That the only way to have Christian Unity would be by completely ignoring the glaring and sometimes Huge differences in how they view (ie. their church doctrines) God, Jesus, Scripture and Salvation itself. Do pay a visit to CS’s and JB’s posts though. And say Hi for the KIA while you’re at it.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programme. -kia

——

When God can’t even get His Prayer answered…

image

“I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.” -Jesus, Son of God, God in Flesh, recorded in John 17:23 KJV

The trouble with saying that God illumines scripture for believers to “rightly divide”, is that there are so many different believers “rightly dividing” with different opinions on what God has illumined them to understand.

The first indication that most Christians get that there is more to the story is when they start encountering and mixing with other Christians of different stripes and denominations.

The obvious answer is that the Biblical God is not able to illumine anything to anyone because He simply isn’t there to consult.

And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.” -Prophet Elijah, 1 Kings 18:27 KJV

A different pseudo-apologist stated once that only believers can rightly interpret and understand scripture because God gives them insight. If that were true, One God… One interpretation and insight.. One understanding and doctrinal stance. Right? Apparantly not.

A test for readers here:
1. Oneness pentecostal or trinitarian?

2. Gifts of the Spirit operating today or ceassationism?

3. The Catholic Mass a continuation of Christ’s sacrifice or only a symbolic remembrance and Tradition?

4. Pre trib, post ,mid-,no trib, pre wrath, partial rapture, amill, post mill, no mill, ?

5. Hell, no hell, annihilation, purgatory, conditional eternal life, eternal security, OSAS, apostasy possible, ?

6. Five points, no points, 4 points, 3 points, Arminian, Amyraldism,

7. The list goes on and on and on….

“Honesty, is such a simple word” -Billy Joel

What will it take before some Christians realize that MOST of us who don’t believe in their christianity or their Bible USED TO BE JUST LIKE THEM? Yeah, it’s true. Most of us who challenge them and refute them and give them the biggest headaches trying to come up with excuses why we should just “shut up and believe them…” we’re once active and very involved believers in Jesus just like them. Some of us even in ministry roles for decades.

You can’t explain away the glaring inconsistencies or paper over the chasmous holes in the “Greatest Story Every Told”. It matters little how many people believe it and for how many centuries it has survived or the good impact believing it has on those who do. It just

“isn’t True, it isn’t History, it’s just more Astounding Rubbish from the NewTestament”- Ken Humphreys, Jesusneverexisted.com (and Old Testament too, I might add -kia)

Enjoy a bit of Cab Calloway this morning with your humble pie.
-kia

We weren’t Idiots. We were just Manipulated

We can all be. Don’t give up.

The truth is, that once we econverted from our individual Cultic groups or Faiths or Religions, we look back to wonder “How stupid and gullible we were”. We try to reach out to those who are still in those groups and sometimes say “How stupid and gullible they are”. They tell us “How stupid and gullible you are” for ever leaving. And those who helped us leave tell us “How stupid and gullible they are” to stay.

The truth is, that it’s less about intelligence and gullibility and more about our ability to be manipulated by others. All of us can be manipulated and made ‘gullible’. I was. You probably were, if you aren’t still being. One of the keys to Recovery is to realize you weren’t and still aren’t just Stupid and Gullible for having been manipulated. Let yourself off the hook and move forward.

And one of the Keys to communicating with those who are still bound and tied up in the groups, faiths and religions you were have now ‘escaped’ from is to understand that they are not necessarily Stupid or idiotic or gullible either. They have just been manipulated like you were and can’t see it yet. Let them off the hook too and keep trying to present the truth of their bondage and captivity also “… with meekness and respect”, even if they continue to treat you like the “Heathen, Heretic, Apostate Dog”.

Sometimes, it’s ok to block someone if they just want to bully or personally attack you with no real intention of honest discussion. I’ve had to do so recently and I gave the Person a very long rope until I finally felt it necessary. This person was not commenting for participation, but only disruption and personal ridicule. Remember, people like we were take their Faith very personally. It was my whole identity at one time and I’m still trying to sort out who I am without it. They may not even want to think about Not being… Whatever anymore. Sometimes that means them being visciously cruel and mean just to push you away so they no longer have to deal with it. Use your own discretion. But for the most part, I’ve found dialogue to be the best option. You can’t reach thru a closed door.

Sometimes these people can be stupid, idiotic, and downright agressive and mean when trying to defend what you used to believe and they still want to. Ad its ok to call them out on it or if necessary to block them from further attacking you, the one trying to free them by getting them to think things thru. But considering people stupid or idiots or just plain mentally deficient just for still being trapped in cycles of manipulation and Cultic Faiths and religions is not just unhelpful, but it’s also counter productive. It ‘allows’ them to feel like the victims, Martyrs for the Cause. And you unwittingly dig the hole deeper instead of helping them out of it.

We can all be manipulated. It’s less about intelligence than about emotions and identity. I’m not always successful, but I try very hard to be respectful and not attack Persons, but rather Ideas. We were once there too. Someone took the time and effort to help us out of Plato’s Cave. Its worth it, really it is. We are living proof that it is possible. To paraphrase a famous religious leader’s words and flip them for my own use… “They are now what we once were, and we are now what they will become.” Truly Free from the Manipulations of Faiths and False Religious Systems.

-kia

Sunday Reading: Lost Christianities

I’m currently reading another Bart Ehrman book on early Christianity and the diversity of beliefs, texts and groups who considered themselves Followers of Jesus. As always in any battle for supremacy, the Winners got to claim the high ground after and worked to suppress and destroy the evidence that would lead back to their rivals. The group that ‘won’ is no more or less accurate than those who lost. They were just the Winners.

-kia

My Journey part 12: Who Am I? Pictures on my Wall

For those who may doubt my stories, these have been on my walls for years. They are displays of my former Faith, who I was, what I did, what I was about and Why I lived.

It’s All about Jesus, stupid

“Three Nails, Three Days, One Way to God”

The first is from a larger “spray can” painting gifted to me by a brother who stayed at my home years back while going thru a divorce. He kept talking in circles about his wife this, his wife that… i told him i didn’t want to hear anything about her anymore. He needed to come back to “the simplicity that is In Christ”. Can’t get much simpler than the Death and Resurrection of Jesus as the Foundation of Christianity. He later gave me this as a token of the ‘gift’ I had given him. If only Marc could see me now…

“For me to Live is Christ… to Die is Great Gain”

This next one is what I call Discipleship 101. Identity is everything for a True Christian ™. As a Disciple of Jesus, you are nothing, you have nothing, you own nothing and you deserve nothing. You quite literally are Dead so that Christ might “Live and Move and have His Being” in your life. You are possessed and obsessed, captivated, motivated and animated by “Christ in you, the Hope of Glory”. You are a Shell for His Being and the glove for His Hand in this world. But you are Dead, Hopeless and your life, such as it is, is ultimately Meaningless without this Wonderful Truth of His Aim in your life… to Use you for His Purposes. You are Dead, He ONLY is Alive in you because you are alive In Christ.

Heady stuff, right? This is why it is extremely difficult to reason rationally with and get thru to Evangelical, Fundamentalist Biblical Christians when trying to show them where they’ve gotten it wrong or have been lied to, especially on Blogs and Twitter… and why it’s Soul Wrenchingly and agonizingly difficult for Deconverts, and even ‘near’ deconverts, from Christianity like me to separate themselves from their Identities “In Christ” even when they’ve accepted the Facts, Evidence and Truths that show that the Bible is mythological, unreliable, and Christianity itself is founded on lies and bald unfounded and unsupportable assertions that run directly counter to what science, reason, rationality and REALITY says about the world as it actually is. Identity is Everything and YOU are Nothing without Christ… and even WITH Him. You are nothing.

Jerusalem, Judea and the Uttermost Parts

Next up is my Mission Statement of Purpose that I created for myself after reading a great book “The Path” by Laurie Beth Jones, the amazingly encouraging, motivational and ‘prophetic’ author of “Jesus CEO”.

I started with me and my dedication to Be and Know and Learn and Grow, then moved out to my fellow Christians and church family to Teach, Disciple and Shape others into the Image of Jesus, then moved into the outer concentric circle of “Out There”, meaning to influence others for Christ in my daily life. I was a Disciple, Discipling Others to Disciple the World for Jesus.

In fact, the very first preaching/teaching in ever did was from Matthew 28 and the Great Commission being NOT about making “Descision for Christ” or winning people to walk down an aisle or say a Sinner’s Prayer or “come to church”… it was about Making Disciples and, in my case, dedicating myself to lead others to become Dedicated Disciples of Jesus. And just as Jesus in the Gospels had His Multitudes, His Twelve (the Twelve Disciples… including Judas Iscariot), His Three (Peter, James and John), and His One (john), so did I. I had my concentric circles of influence for Christ as I Discipled Disciplers to Disciple the Nations… or at least my Arizona portion of them.

If anyone at all is a True Christian ™, I was

These things I did because I was Convinced that I was right. I was Convinced that I either “Knew it All” or knew someone else who could answer questions I couldn’t and Trusted them and the God of the Bible, and His Only Begotten Son Jesus, that if all else failed THEY would be able to “lead me beside still waters” and bring comfort to my soul, even if there were no answers “this side of heaven” to those questions. I was wrong. I did not Known it All. Neither did any of my contemporaries or teachers or favorite authors or Apologists. And I’ve been in Recovery Mode ever since.

I am not who I was. I am Less and I am More

I am no longer bound to an Identity from Mythology. If the Truth of Reality hath set me Free…. I am “Free Indeed”.

I’m not sure who exactly I am anymore or what I’m doing in my life, but I can tell you with certainty that I was not a fake or misled or misguided or any kind of “No True Scotsman” Christian you could think of as an excuse not to consider my words and ideas.

You may dismiss me, you may argue that I’ve become apostate and reprobate, you may call me names and denigrate me as just another ‘nut job’, no talent idiot. But one thing you will never be able to do and I will never allow you to do is say I wasn’t REALLY a True Christian ™. I most certainly was and it’s the reason I am as adamant in my rejection of Christianity today. So repeat after me:

  • I was a True Christian ™.
  • I was Wrong.
  • And now I’m in Recovery.

There’s room for you too. Won’t you come along also for the Journey? Comments below, please.

Thank you again. -kia

Overheard… oh my, not CS again…

Hat tip to Wally, Tom, and CS in that order..

The demands for “proof” are constant. The demand is for the proof to be scientific, empirical, and indisputable. God is transcendent, and the question of His existence not scientific. A transcendent being cannot be proven, or disproven by the scientific method which requires things that are observable, can be recreated and repeated. This issue of nonbelief is NOT a proof based problem; it is a heart problem.

And…

Science proves God? Not really. Logic proves the existence of God, but not science. The scientific method is actually quite limited in what it can be used to do. Moreover, we don’t have the tools to study God. We can only use science to study his Creation.

I agree. But I would also ask… which God of the thousands that mankind has chosen to Believe in, follow, kill and die for are they talking about? And of which of these could this not be said? To say we cannot have and should not therefore even ask for Proof, or the demonstration of the Truth of said claims, for His existence again stretched Credulity past the point of Sanity to the realm of willing and knowing Self Delusion.

True science fears nothing, and while agreeing with the best of men regarding scripture, I disagree with believers who say science has little or no part in revealing God. It has every part, and here’s why. Science is the provable method in how things are known. When we say we KNOW, we do so because truth is on the table. Knowing and opinions are not equally credible.

Would not the Hindu be able to say… “Lord Shiva is beyond scientific examination, yet… He exists, it’s a Heart issue”. Or perhaps Muhammad of Islam? Or Zeus… Hanuman, the monkey god… or the Mormon incarnation of Yahweh with his multiple wifes in the Celestial Heavens bearing spirit babies who each have the same opportunity and Destiny he had when He was born from His parents, to attain godhood and rule of his own planet?

Which God of humanity throughout the millenia could this not be said for to exempt His/Her followers and worshippers from presenting actual evidence of their actual existence to back the threats of Eternal Doom or promises of Eternal Bliss if ONLY the trunchiant non believers would forfeit their Critical Thinking skills and yield completely and wholeheartedly to the Sacred Interpretations of unknown answers and ignorance?

Then there are some of the Rainbow Bright, Pompously Prysmatic variety… you know who you are… who would say no, we CAN know, elucidated and illuminated by Sacred Writ… theirs of course, by interpreting “correctly” and with Faith… Presuppositionally of course… the God of Nature, by Nature itself. Really? Would you afford the same ability and freedom and application of this Sacred Reasoning to those of others Faiths that you allow yourself? How could you in good and honest conscience deny them what you afford to your Faith?

What would allow a Muslim, a Pagan, a Hindu… a Christian… sole ability to claim such an Exemption? When applied to all equally, what would allow such Christians to deny the same reasoning for the ‘Intuitive Existence’ of other Gods that they afford to their own, Yahweh?

With such thinking, or non thinking as the case may be, might they be forced to admit that the ‘evidence’ for the existence of Other Gods is at least as good as the evidence they use to support the ‘existence’ of their own? How could they escape the conclusion, as they have applied it to the Other Gods, that their own Yahweh has the same nonexistence as they apply to them?

Indeed. Science cannot prove or disprove the existence of the generic “God of the philoshers” or even Russell’s Teapot. But science, evidence, reason, logic, archaeology, ancient history and literary criticism in fact CAN disprove the gods of some religions, the God of the Bible and the Great Monotheistic Triad of Judaism, Christianity and Islam being one of them.

I may not be able to rule in or out the existence or nonexistence of “God” in the broader term, but I do know that the stories of the God described in the Bible, and His Only Begotten Son Jesus, by their cruel, sadistic, murderous and both internal and external inconsistencies with both history and nature rule them out as persons or entities who actually exist outside of the pages of Jewish, Christian, and Muslim Holy Writ.

If Yahweh exists by mere acclamation and Faith that he does, without evidence or “proof” of that claim needed… then so does Zeus, Vishnu, Diana of Ephesus, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. They all can claim the same exemptions to examination as Yahweh. Thank you Color Storm for clearing that up for us. All the rest of us… THINK.

-kia

Piranhas and Lions Create Deconverts and Atheists, James

((Reposting for Citizen Tom this morning))

In answer to a comment from on CS’s post the other day answering another Christian on who exactly ‘creates’ atheists and non believers…

Atheists don’t create other atheists as much as they provide support for people who already believe exactly the same way they do.

To which I replied… or would have if I trusted the blog host to not edit or slice and dice my comment 🙂 …

You are correct James. Atheists don’t create atheists. And non Christians don’t create Deconverts of Christianity. For that it takes Evidence and the ‘help’ of Christians like yourself. You ‘create’ non believers with your behavior and lack of understanding. Thanks for helping me see that there is no truth in Christianity.-kia

and it’s true. “These are the wounds I received in the house of my friends” could easily be said of how Christians such as I was are treated for asking questions ‘outside of the lines’ or trying to be honest with the answers and evidence.

A word from the Christian in the middle hot seat this time

silenceofmind says:

Storm,

If atheism, not Christianity, reigns supreme in Western Civilization.

If atheism has no basis, why has it replaced Christianity.

Apparently, Christianity has even less basis than atheism.

One of his more salient points of the conversation

The proof of what I’m saying is how the W, CS, and IB Trio treated and ganged up on SoM… a Fellow Believer in Christ… for trying to correct CS and his understanding of scripture, doctrine and Catholicism.

My own story of abusive treatment at the hands my ‘loving brothers in Christ’ happened a couple of years ago when i was still a Christian asking questions on James’s and Wally’s blogs trying to get honest and better answers based on new information I was learning on the internet and other non Christian blogs about the very foundations of my Faith.

Instead of answers, I got treated like and called an atheist, a ‘not a True Scotsman’, and a malicious and ‘hate-filled person just wanting to bash christians’ when in reality… none of that was true. I was a 34yr long Christian, 25 of those in various ministry roles, who just wanted better answers in the face of new evidence. I was a Christian when they treated me this way, just like SOM.

So the Truth of the matter is James, Wally, CS… he’s right. Atheists don’t create atheists and Deconverts from Christianity …

You do. Congratulations, your Saviour would be proud.

-kia